C5 - Oil pressure insufficient [solved]

[Ben82]

Hi All,

Another Day, Another issue with my c5!

Just got back from my UK trip, however the car (see sig for specs) is only part way back from the airport! Drove about 40km (out of ~100) and other half wanted some food, so we went to pull into a fast food restaurant, pulling into the car park, the stop light came on and on the dash it said "Oil Pressure Insufficient", stopped in the car park and went in to eat, did a google search on the phone, and saw some people with the same issue saying that oil was leaking, so went out wiped the dipstick, and put it back in again to check... it was at the highest groove.. so that seems like it's not leaking.. which was good (hopefully).

Waited a bit more, started the car again, after about 30s, the warning came back

The insurance over here basically covered only getting the car to the nearest garage to where it had the problem, and of course the garage isn't open until Wednesday, added we needed to make our own way back (and pay the insurance excess for the tow).

Sadly I brought the lexia back with me, but hadn't set up an XP VM for the software on my laptop, so couldn't take any readings to try to work out if it was a sensor fault or was a severe issue.

Nothing out of the ordinary whilst driving for those ~40km, only thing that was out of the ordinary was the raising of the suspension at the beginning (after leaving it in the cold for 2 weeks), it didn't raise very well and "popped" up rather than had a gradual increase.

Any ideas what it could be? doubtful it's the filter as that was changed a few months ago at its service, oil level seems fine (again oil was changed a couple of months ago too, so hopefully unlikely too).

Obviously since it's in a garage 60km away, I have no real idea what they are like, or if they have a lexia either! My main wild guess would be it's the Oil Pressure Switch, does this seem at all likely?

Thanks again in advance.

Ben

[oneday]

i think you may have to wait a little while for an answer from the engine chaps think they are out oiling there throats tonight

[Peter.N.]

Sounds like a faulty sensor to me, if the oil pressure was very low you would hear the engine rattling. As long as the sump is full you should be able to get away with driving it with no oil pressure if you do it gently and keep the revs down. I drove an old diesel 180 miles from London to here with no oil pressure as the pick up pipe had a hole in it, not something I would reccomend but in an emergengy do able

Peter

[myglaren]

If there really is a loss of oil pressure I would be concerned about lack of lubrication to the camshaft and turbo.

I had the oil feed to a Volvo clog up due to poor servicing before I bought it. Camshaft seized and snapped, ruined the bearings.
A second hand head fixed it as it wasn't an interference engine, fortunately.
No turbo either.

Should be simple enough to swap out the sensor and see if it is that or something worse.

[Peter.N.]

You have a point there, mine was a pushrod engine and no turbo.

Peter

[Mandrake]

I for one would not be driving anywhere with a low oil pressure warning...especially with a turbo.

I speak from bitter experience. Not a Citroen I know, but I managed to ruin both the turbo and the big end bearings in my '84 daihatsu charade by driving about 50 miles with low oil level. It burnt/used a bit of oil that required regular checking and topping up of the oil, for some reason I forgot to check it for a long time before then going for a long trip, I got home to a rather noisy sounding engine and a dipstick that wasn't even registering any oil.

Sadly that car had neither a low oil level light nor a low oil pressure light, but if it had it would have saved it. The turbo seized intermittently the next few weeks under high rpm load then totally seized up and died a few weeks later, resulting in an expensive replacement turbo. The big end bearings didn't fail completely but they remained noisy and rumbly for the rest of the time I had the car, and it never revved nearly as smoothly again which was a shame, because it was a really good revver before that.

Don't take any chances with low oil pressure.

[Ben82]

Thanks all... so in summary, it was best not to try to drive home and it's most likely the sensor, which looks to be about £10 for the part, and I guess whatever they charge to fit it (If the car was brought home I would have tried to do it myself), however since it's 60km away, and not too easy for me to get to (45min on train and then walk/taxi), it's probably best I let them fix it, and I make my way there once done.

Sods law is they start it up tomorrow and it doesn't have the issue. Hope they do though, don't want to drive it back and it comes on again part way home. Will have to see if I can get some breakdown cover too (in general, as the tow was flipping expensive because of it being NYE).

[Ben82]

Other Half has heard back from the mechanics (obviously she is translating Swedish to English, so somethings may not translate very well, their "Citroen Guy" also wasn't in today, so not sure on competence).....

They have said that the V6 doesn't have a sensor for the oil pressure to give off this message, and the sensor would be for low oil (which it obviously isn't low on). They can do something to stop this message from occurring (not sure I like the sound of this!), by replacing the part (which is about £15, guess it could be that switch i was talking about).

But they have also noticed a ticking from the engine (cue my previous thread!: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=42529" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), local mechanic said it was nothing serious and was fine to ignore ("just turn the radio up!"). These have said there's a vibration, and a tiny electric shock when touching a certain part of the engine.. which apparently shouldn't happen... they have said the vibration is probably down to bad oil, and there is dirt in the engine, and it would need cleaning, potentially needing a new oil filter (hope not as that should have been changed at the last service)

My main question for them has been, essentially what is enough to ensure it is safe to drive it back to here, and they are going to double check with their Citroen guy tomorrow. My reasoning for that is, it's far easier for me to be face to face with a mechanic, for them to explain an issue (and I would prefer they show me the issue!), and if there's a big job at hand it's better if it's within walking/bus distance.

They said the clean would cost about £200.

Does this sound likely? or is my sense of "lets see what we can find is wrong to charge to fix whilst we are at it" too far in overdrive?

(PS: The "ticking" wasn't happening when driving back from the airport on NYE, or it was and we couldn't hear it due to the amount of rain!)

[oneday]

i dont know the v6 engine but i would wait to see what the citroen guy has to say before you make a decision

[Mandrake]

Getting a shock from the engine ? The ignition system on the V6 is fully enclosed apart from the plug leads to the rear bank that run across the inlet manifold. That plus vibration suggests that maybe the plug leads are faulty causing a minor misfire and vibration. If the insulation on the plug leads has broken down it could explain a shock.

I just replaced the plug leads on my V6 recently (at 14 years old mind you) and two of the three leads were open circuit, but the engine was still running okish, but misfiring a little under load...

Personally I wouldn't get too carried away with doing ancillary repairs at an unfamiliar far away garage, confirm with them that the oil pressure is ok and there's no imminent risk of damage driving the car home then sort out the rest with a clear head...

[Hell Razor5543]

It is possible that the ticking is the hydraulic regulator. If the Accumaltor sphere has failed then you can get a ticking noise at short intervals (Gracie was doing it every 5 seconds, which is bad news). When I replaced the spheres this went up to over a minute.

[Peter.N.]

I suppose the safest thing to do would be to buy a cheap pressure gauge and fit it to the engine where the switch is.

Peter

[lexi]

The thing is. They have your car and it is there to mark up a bill. Simple as that.

Sounds like the good news bad news story. This will only be 15 quid. But that will be 200........to change your oil ?

Get an oil pressure gauge and once checked, maybe get a service oil /filter change at a reasonable place to be sure. Sweden is expensive enough without getting ripped off into the bargain . You used to be able to loosen a banjo nut or the pressure switch off a car for a rough indication. You got a jet of oil which at least told you the lube system had pressure. This is shade tree mechanics of course. If you spill oil on the kerb in Sweden you might get a ban from Pillaging or be forced to listen to Abba while they take your teeth out

[Ben82]

It is possible that the ticking is the hydraulic regulator. If the Accumaltor sphere has failed then you can get a ticking noise at short intervals (Gracie was doing it every 5 seconds, which is bad news). When I replaced the spheres this went up to over a minute.

Hmm, if the ticking they had is the same as what I heard (and posted), then I don't think this is the case, since the ticking I had was fairly relative to revs of the engine?

Will hopefully find out more from the garage tomorrow, apparently the computer said no issues (I'm assuming they had a Lexia, and didn't just pop an OBDII reader in the socket).

Personally I wouldn't get too carried away with doing ancillary repairs at an unfamiliar far away garage, confirm with them that the oil pressure is ok and there's no imminent risk of damage driving the car home then sort out the rest with a clear head...

and

The thing is. They have your car and it is there to mark up a bill. Simple as that.

Indeed, this is my exact thinking. Obviously I can only go by what my other half has said to me which is translated from what they've said... and she only understands some of it (and wishes she learnt more from her dad before he passed away - he was a mechanic).. She is under the impression that the "cheap fix" is fine for getting it home, and the £200 one is one that should be done "soon", but will get confirmation of that tomorrow from their citroen guy.

oh and lexi, Abba would a be a relief from having a kid listening to "Mojje" on repeat a lot (a punishment I have to frequently endure! )

[Mandrake]

The weird thing is, the V6 engine - if its the same ES9J4 as the Xantia, doesn't have an oil pressure sensor - just as the garage says. So where did the low oil pressure warning come from on the dashboard ? It would be interesting to see what a Lexia had to say about any logged fault codes. (Which you should be able to check when you get home and get your Lexia working again)

Looking at your original post it says "oil pressure insufficient" not engine oil pressure insufficient. Is there any chance that its the gearbox oil pressure (line/rail pressure) that's low ? Is it an automatic, and if so is it a 4HP20 ? Again, the Xantia version of the 4HP20 doesn't have an oil pressure sensor that is monitored by the ECU, but since the later AL4 does have an oil pressure sensor monitored by the ECU (and readable with a Lexia) its possible that later revisions of the 4HP20 used in C5's might have an oil pressure sensor as well... (Speculating here)

I would make sure the car is safe to drive home with no obvious oil pressure loss or leaks and get it on your own Lexia as soon as you can (check both engine and gearbox) and go from there. Don't be persuaded into a whole bunch of unnecessary work just so they can pad out the bill...

One other thought - regarding the ticking noise you describe in your other thread, is it possible its the hydraulic tappets in the engine not adjusting properly when the oil is cold and thick ? It might just be really dirty oil, or an oil grade that is the wrong viscosity for the very low temperatures you have...might be worth doing an oil and filter change yourself and make sure you choose an oil grade suitable for very low temperatures to see if that fixes your ticking noise...