Injector issues

[HB1625]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and after some advice please.

I have a Citroen C4 1.6 diesel 11 plate and recently broke down. Diagnostic check said injector 3 had failed. This was replaced but failed again 3 days later. A new injector was fitted and coded. The car is spluttering, has very little power, it juddered and lurched when I tried to drive it the day after the injector was fitted. It then started to smell of burning fuel and was smoking from the exhaust.

It's been in to a main dealer for diagnosis (fault log had been cleared so this didn't come up with anything) and has been reprogrammed but this hasn't cured the problem. Further diagnosis is going to be very costly. Any ideas on what the problem could be? Many thanks.

[PaulC5]

Was the correct injector replaced, Citroen tend to number from the gear box end ?

[shtu]

It's also possible that multiple injectors have failed. All the symptoms you describe suggest an injector fault.

Unfortuntely, proper diagnosis is something that really has to be done in-person - with the info above any advice you get here is nothing more than guesswork. I'd tend to recommend finding a diesel injector specialist rather than a main dealer. Testing an injector should be about £25ish a time.

[HB1625]

PaulC5 - I don't know in all honesty, I only have their word for it.

shtu - that's interesting, thank you. It's currently with the main dealer awaiting further instruction. They want to remove and send all injectors away at a cost of over £660. That's probably more than my little old car is worth.

[HB1625]

I should add, it's the AA that have fitted it, roadside. The same injector failed again 3 days later so they fitted a new one. It's been coded apparently, and all injectors have been 'reset'. They advised taking it to a main dealer to have the ECU reflashed. This has been done and not solved the problem. The main dealers now want to go by a process of elimination, starting with removing all of the injectors for testing.

[Pluggit]

I pressume its a PSA hdi engine. Injectors get bad press when they are a lot more forgiving than people think. Ive never had one fail in any of my hdi engines. They are only as reliable as the fuel being supplied. All it takes is a bit of water-in-fuel contamination to cause an injector issue. I would go back to basics and replace the filter AFTER having pumped up a good half gallon of diesel thru the system just to get any air/water out of the pipes. Coding isnt really an issue. I have tested with stand-by injectors of differing codes and the vehicle has run fine. The code only tells the ecu to set a fuel delivery slope at a set level. The worst that happens is that an engine will run slightly lean or rich giving slightly different running feel. The ecu will eventually "learn" the new uncoded injector in. I think you have a fuel delivery issue rather than an injector(s) issue. Ps: whats the mileage, and dont always think a main dealer is gods gift to engine diagnostics - some forum members have far more knowledge and hands-on experience.

[HB1625]

Thanks for replying. Mileage is around 49,000. Quite low mileage for the year I think. I don't know about PSA, but yes it's hdi.

I was glad to stumble across this forum and hoped someone would indeed share some ideas with me.

The only reason it ended up with a main dealer is because the AA said they would have the right equipment to reflash the ECU, which is what they said it needed. A number of local garages either won't touch injectors at all or were suggesting that there was potentially far greater damage.

You mention pumping up a half gallon of diesel through the system - do you mean by driving it and getting fuel through the system that way? or leaving the engine to run for a while? Forgive me, I'm a lady with no knowledge of cars at all other than how to drive one and put diesel in. The car's just been sat still for fear of causing further damage.

[HB1625]

When the car was first diagnosed, I was told injector 3 needed replacing. I've just been sent the full report from the AA (extract attached).

It mentions all kinds of codes, including PO266 and something about cylinder 2. Can anyone shed any light on this? Does it mean other things were wrong and does it give any clues as to what they did to put it right?

[Pluggit]

Hi. Was just browsing new posts and stumbled on your last reply some weeks ago. Dare say you have got the problem sorted now. What I suggested was beyond your capabilities - it was probably beyond the average DIY-er to be honest. I have accrued a lot of diesel fuel-injection experience over the years and tend to forget Im not in the majority. If I had been closer to you I would have come over with some gear and tried to help you out but I must be at least 100miles away. If you did indeed get it back on the road, what was the problem in the end?

[HB1625]

Thank you for replying, Pluggit. I never did find out what was wrong. The main dealer I mentioned wanted nearly a £1000 to remove, test and refit the injectors as a starting point and there was no way I was going to pay that, probably more than my car is worth.

Someone bought it off me - fully aware of it's issues - he knew of a garage somewhere that would get to the bottom of it. Next time I see him, I'll ask as I'm curious myself.

As for the AA who left my car in that state...

[shtu]

Only just spotted this. There's 3 main erors there.

Injector 3 short circuit - this could be an injector fault, or a fault in the wiring loom.
Injector 3 outside tolerance - on it's way out anyway.
Injector 2 outside tolerance - also on it's way out.

The repeated replacement of no3 makes me suspect a wiring fault as well as an injector.

That report also says you declined a repair - was this at the first or second fault? If it was the second time, where did that first replacement injector come from? I know it's gone now, but always interesting to at least get close to the root of the problem.

[HB1625]

Thanks for replying shtu

Re: declining the repair...
When the AA came out to the first breakdown, it was dark and late at night and after diagnosing it, they said I'd need to ring up and request another patrol who carried injectors and was qualified to fit it. I said rather than do that, I'll get it to a garage up the road in the morning. This is why they refer to me 'declining a repair'. However, I tried 3 local places and all declined to touch diesel engine injectors so rang the AA to come and do the repair.

They fitted a new injector 3 which failed a couple of days later, they replaced it under warranty and when he handed me the keys back he told me it was running well now, no issues, all coded in etc. I foolishly took him at his word, didn't check til the next morning when I realised it was in an even worse state than before - blowing smoke burning smell etc. I phoned them to come out again and they did but refused to carry out any further work on the car, telling me to take it to a main dealer to sort it out.

The extract of the report I copied to here...
I did an FOI request to the AA and they sent through everything that they had on file, including this. It contains a lot more detail than the repair summary which they originally sent eg. I wasn't made aware that they'd found any issue at all with injector 2 so this was news to me - perhaps something I could have shared with the main dealer to give them a clue where to look if I'd known.

[Pluggit]

You just dropped unlucky generally on that car. My advice for the future: If you break down, have a Relay option to get you home. Dont let them take you to a local garage, request that you want it put on your drive. Then get on here(or whatever forum covers your new car brand) and start getting some info. Then start looking for an independent repairers for that brand. DONT head for the main dealers unless all else fails - they charge rock-star prices and dont know as much as you may think. A lot of people on these forums have dealer standard diagnostics( and experience) - and could diagnose, pull and recon injectors in half day. Bit too late for your C4 but something for the future.

[HB1625]

All good advice. Many thanks