HELP: C5 (x7) 2009 2.2 DW12BTED4 Diagnostics

[Bigzed]

Hi All,
I am looking for a bit of help with an issue I am experiencing with my Vehicle.
The issue is that the car has started to cut-out after the anti-pollution fault flashes on the display on the dash. It doesnt go into limp mode just cuts out. The EML light does not come on.
The car will re-start and can be driven, but can do the same thing at varying distances between cut-outs. This can range from 500metres to 50 miles +.

I have used a generic DTC reader on the vehicle ( Car Scanner) which reports the following codes.
P0490, P1459, P2111 The status of these codes are either " Test is inhibited by other DTC, Validated and stored in non volatile memory" or " Test is inhibited by other DTC, Test has not been completed".
Car Scanner is recording these faults are related to the EGR, EVAP and TAC.
I have removed and unstuck / cleaned the EGR valve, but the code is still present. However I have not driven the car any distance, just run it in the drive.

An additional code reported are P0420. The status of this codes is "Pending fault present, Pending fault present during this driving cycle, Validated and stored in non volatile memory" Car Scanner is recording this fault is related to Catalytic converter system, bank 1 - efficiency below threshold. A different DTC reader (FAP) is recording this fault as a Particle filter overloaded, and this software is showing the FAP soot level at 92% and the deposits in FAP being 122g.
I am assuming the DPF IS BLOCKED

I am looking to understand the fault codes better, and am wondering which VCI cable I need to get the citroen fault code descriptions. I have a copy of diagbox 9.68 installed on my laptop.

Any help on this issue or assistance with diagnosis with Lexia would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[GiveMeABreak]

That's likely to be the main issue if the DPF is blocked up and can't regenerate. Why you haven't been getting a warning about this I'm not sure as it should provide a message if it is unable to regenerate after multiple attempts.

As for the grammes deposited in the filter - this is telling you that the estimated Cerine elements which can't be burned off during regeneration are at the maximum level for the filter.

Cleaning the DPF thoroughly should extend the life, but once done you will have to advise the engine ECU via replacement parts that the filter has been replaced.

As for your fault codes, please provide your VIN (please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff). I can then provide some additional info as they relate to your specific engine.

[Bigzed]

Hi, Thanks for your quick reply.
My VIN # is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

[Bigzed]

]I also note that the volume of additive is 755ml.
I am not sure that the FAP software readings are correct.
The previous FAP software live data recording ( second pic) showed the FAP soot at 36%. This was taken only approximately 30 miles before.

[GiveMeABreak]

That is normal and how it is supposed to work. The soot reading will rise as the filter starts to fill and when regeneration has completed, soot levels fall back. So if this is working ok then your FAP may be fine, although after a certain amount of deposits 122g in your case, it is getting near end of life as estimated by the engine ECU.

P0420 means the Differential exhaust pressure signal: Particle filter overloaded. So as a safety measure, the particle filter has differential pressure sensor which continuously measures the difference in pressure of the exhaust gases, between the inlet and the outlet of the particle filter. If these register the exit pressure as too high then it will trigger a fault. This may happen if the vehicle has been unable to regenerate despite applying it's various strategies to cope with this for example on short journeys or interruption during the regen cycle.

In your case looking at the average miles between regenerations, this would indicate difficult traffic conditions (Citroen deem this to be at 200 KMs), 160 miles being 250 KMs would be in this category.

How many miles has the vehicle done?

P0490 means an Electric EGR valve position copy signal: Insufficient opening of the valve. So this could be starting to stick.
P1459 means the Electric EGR valve position copy signal: EGR valve confirmed jammed closed.
P2111 means the Mixer butterfly position copy signal: Butterfly stuck during post operation.

There isn't a lot of additional info on these early 2.2 engined vehicles as they were carried over from earlier models and were soon replaced.

It may just be the time and the mileage where it's going to need a bit of maintenance on the EGR and cleaning up along with the DPF - also consider the air intake manifold housing too - these can get gunked up.

[Bigzed]

Hi Marc,
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
The Car has covered 101 k miles.
The description to the code faults are the same as the ones provided by the FAP software I have.
As mentioned earlier I have cleaned and unstuck the EGR valve, and the FAP software live data shows the valve opening and closing. reading is from 0 to 49% whilst revving when the vehicle is stationary. So I was questioning P0490, and P1459 codes, as these were being indicated on the Car scanner software of pending faults and " Test is inhibited by other DTC, Test has not been completed".
The P2111 code, I assumed is related to the air intake manifold housing, which I am going to tackle next for a clean.

As for the DPF, I can either try to clean this or replace it, either way I will need to tell the ECU that this has been done. Which VCI lead do I need to connect my diagbox ( laptop) to the ODBII port?
I have read that some leads ( chinese clones) have difficulty communicationg with the C5. I dont want to waste good money on a VCI that cant communicate with this vehicle. Any suggestions / links to the right one would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[GiveMeABreak]

Regarding the VCI - it's the hardware (Vehicle Communication Interface) itself, not the cable as it were. Make sure you get a Full Chip Revision C from a reputable seller (preferably from the UK) so you have some decent backup.

Have a look at this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60112

[Bigzed]

Hi Marc,
Thanks for all your advice.
The easydiagnostics website as per the thread, does not have the VCI, its out of stock.

I have another question related to this DPF issue, you may be able to help with.
You mention that the ECU only estimates the FAP deposits and the additive amount. I assume that the ECU then classes this estimation as fault when it reaches it upper or lower estimated value. Therefore Is it feasible to assume that without replacing the DPF or topping up the additive, with lexia you can tell the ecu that both these items are replaced / refilled. Therefore it is possible to fool the car that everything is ok.

Not that I am intending to do this, but this could be the case by a previous owner in the case of the EOLYS fluid amount reading 755ml @100 k miles. As I understand this fluid probably should be low at this type of mileage.

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes, it's an annoying thing done by dodgy garages and unscrupulous individuals moving a car on.

The additive pump will at some point run dry and fail requiring a new pump by the next owner - and the same with the DPF - but at least that has the differential pressure sensor to trigger a warning when the DPF starts building up soot and the exit gasses are reduced resulting from blockage when a regeneration starts to become impossible.

Anything over 70% is risky as anything near over this limit can result in further regeneration being unable to take place as the filter will be too clogged.

So as far as the DPF goes you risk that becoming totally blocked if left to carry on and a knackered additive pump if that is allowed to run with no fluid.

Easy Diags run out of kit quite quickly as they are quite popular, but always have fresh stock in - give them a call Monday and speak to Jim.

[Bigzed]

Whilst waiting for easydiagnostics to restock the lexia cable, I went to see @MGMike, who kindly read and cleared all the historic dtc codes.
The vehicle cut out again - anti-polution warning, and reading the codes ( with car scanner app) at that time came up wilth new ones
P0087 - Fuel rail/system pressure too low
P0093 - Fuel system leak - large leak detected
P1113 - IAT Sensor Open/Short - Intake air temperature (IAT) sensor circuit - open/short
P2111 - Throttle actuator control (TAC) system - actuator stuck open
P3003 - ?

I still have to clean the throttle body relating to P2111, but I am interested to know what the P3003 dtc code is.
A google search came back with P3003 - Manifold pressure control solenoid valve - pressure too low.

It would appear that the DPF / EGR issues have been resolved as there are no current codes relating to this. However I am thinking that the P0087 & P0093, could be related to the disturbance of the removal of the fuel rail, when removing the EGR valve to clean the actuator. There is no evidennce of a fuel leak?

Any suggestions on P3003, and how to resolve thes issues would be greatly appreciated.

[GiveMeABreak]

That's why it's important to relate the fault codes specifically to the engine management system in use - don't rely on generic internet stuff or dodgy OBD apps. In your case most of the codes are incorrect from your app.:

P3003: Fuel pressure regulator control / regulation: Pressure below reference value.

P0087: Fuel high pressure regulation: Pressure below reference value
P0087: Fuel pressure regulator control: Pressure below reference value

P0093: Fuel high pressure regulation: Pump flow regulation solenoid valve opens less than the reference value.
P1113: Fuel high pressure regulation: Minimum pressure not reached.
P2111: Mixer butterfly position copy signal: Butterfly stuck during post operation.

Unfortunately as this was an older engine shortly retired PSA didn't provide details of the fault codes, so we only have the headline fault to go on.

However, I know from past issues here and from Citroen, that even removing the fuel rail regulator from the rail can cause these issues, and Citroen only sell the complete rail new probably for this reason. So the High Pressure Fuel Sensor and the High Pressure Fuel Regulator are only sold as part of the complete Common Rail by PSA.

That's not to say you can't get the parts on the aftermarket, but success has been variable...

[Bigzed]

Thank you for the detailed explanation of the codes.

Luckily, on removing the egr valve for cleaning, I removed the fuel rail with the regulator in position. I only disconnected the two wire coneector. So I think I can rule out the codes,and any issues relating to disturbing the factory seal here. I think the codes were triggered by the car cutting out rather than the cause. See update.

Update. After the car cut out and reading of the codes on a generic reader (car scanner app). I cleared the fault codes. The car ran the 15 miles home without an issue. On reading the codes after that the only code that came up was the P2111.

P2111: Mixer butterfly position copy signal: Butterfly stuck during post operation.

Am I correct in thinking that the mixer butterfly is located in the cast aluminium body ( throttle body) attached to the intake manifold (circled in red). Is it possible to take this off without removing the intake manifold?
If this is not the location of this could you point me in the right direction.

Thanks again

[GiveMeABreak]

P2111: Mixer butterfly position copy signal: Butterfly stuck during post operation

In relation to its position, the butterfly housing meter permits improvement of the recycling of the exhaust gas.
The control of the butterfly housing meter is managed by a map incorporated in the engine ECU.

The butterfly housing meter is used during the following phases:

• Particulate filter regeneration
• Regulation of the exhaust gas (EGR)
• During the emission control cycle
• When the engine is switched off

The mixer is removed with the manifold - Citroen haven't documented it as a separate removable item.