chance m/m to h/b ng4

[Kees]

Dear forummers.
I want to chance my Magneti Marelli system with an Harman Becker NG4, compleet with the display.
my question is does anyone have the connection data of the Harman Becker NG 4. of the Magneti Marelli I already have it.
Greetings.
Kees Beekhuijs

[GiveMeABreak]

Which system do you currently have? RT4 or RT6? If you aren't sure, post your vehicle VIN up here and I cab see from that.

There are also other changes you need to be aware of:

A lot of the NG4 Navidrive 3D systems also had the 'MDS Services Module fitted. This deals with the auto location and emergency calling aspect, so is wired up differently to other systems. There is a SIM card module for the internal telephone of the NG4 in the glovebox with external A/V connections. Also the NG4 needs the High Resolution DEV display, so you may need to replace that too and possibly the wiring loom.

[Kees]

Hai, Marc.
Thanks for youre reply.
I have a RT4 system, i'm sure of it, but the vin is: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].
The other system i get is from a car whit the vin: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].
Thi car has a broken enginge, so i wil remove the complete system from this car, the display, mds unit and also the back camera if this is on this car.
but i,m not sure if i also need the wiring (cabel harness)
and also the center console.
greetings,
Kees.

[GiveMeABreak]

You're missing a digit from the second VIN, you only have 16 alpha / numeric and it should be 17.

There is no reverse camera on X7 Saloons, and these only came in with later Tourer models with RT6, so nothing to concern you there.

[Kees]

Hai, Marc.
i gif you again the vin, it is: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].
About the cam, this is a tourer.
greetings,
Kees.

[GiveMeABreak]

That's it - you missed the L out last time.

Ok, so even though this is a tourer, that may have a rear camera, it won't work with the saloon. 1) the NG4 does not support it and 2) you won't have the correct parking assistance ECU and 3) the loom is different. So forget the camera.

Ok, so I have just checked and as expected, every single harness (Fascia Panel Console, Interior Wiring Harness, obstacle detection Loom and Rear Tailgate harnesses are different with additional harnesses not included on the saloon which won't be relevant. These are just the main harnesses I checked.

I know from previous posts on similar topics that each X7 model and engine had different harnesses and again according to optional equipment.

[Kees]

oke, thanks Marc for youre help sofar.

[Kees]

Marc, a other question.
can you tell me where the parts are located in the car, like the MDS unit and as far i understand is there also a equliser mounted.
about the wiring and harnesse i wil these also remove them from this car (tourer)

[GiveMeABreak]

The equaliser on left hand drive cars is fitted up behind the right side (passenger) glovebox. To get to it you will need to remove the glovebox.

Be aware that if you are also fitting this, you'll need to configure the amplifier ECU (it is a CAN multiplexed amp) for use with NG4 system in the ECU parameters.

The Speakers are also different part numbers as is the wiring for models with an equaliser amp.

[Kees]

@ Marc:
I know. that it's not easy, but we see how far i come, otherwise i can always chance to the Magneti Marelli RT6.
Greetings.
Kees.

[Kees]

@ Marc:
Hai, Marc.
Now i get the schematic wiring diagram from both cars.
Now i see, it's impossible to chance from one to another, becauce as you say, the amplifier is with an CAN bus the pins are 40 and 38 but the BSI in my car do'nt have these pins, or connections.
so, i decite to let it go.
maybe it's better to look for an RT6 with schreen.
greetings,
Kees.

[Kees]

@Marc:
An update for you. lateron when i study the schamatics again, i notich, that the connection from both the radio's and display's are the same.
so i take the risk and buy the unit from the donor car.
I changed the RT4 with the NG4 and it worked perfect, i changed with the diagbox the vin and switch off the amplifer , now every thing is fine.
Greetings,
Kees.

[GiveMeABreak]

Well done. Having an existing telematics system makes it easier.

[Kees]

@GiveMeABreak:
i hope you can help me.
Today i try to find the service module (MDS Module) witch belong to the NG4 unit from the donor car.
The RT4 has this inside the unit.
I try to follow the wires, but they disapier in the kabel harnes.

[GiveMeABreak]

The Services Module is not inside the RT4. It is a separate piece of equipment and was never integrated into a Head Unit.

The RT4 had a similar system, but not the same as the MDS, and had a SIM card installed in the unit which on the RT3 and early RT4 without bluetooth was the only way to use the telephone.

Depending on country and options, the MDS (Services Module) is a separate independent telematics unit used for geolocation and emergency calling in the event of an accident. If fitted, it is linked to the NG4 Head Unit but it is a completely separate device. The MDS does not need a SIM card for an emergency call, it only needs a SIM card for a service (Citroen / Peugeot Customer Service Centre) or for making calls not via Bluetooth. This system is activated automatically when the airbags are triggered or manually using the buttons.

The MDS module is heavily integrated into the wiring system, so not really possible to retrofit as it has direct connections to the microphone in the ceiling, CAN wiring to the Head Unit, a separate independent aerial, direct links to the left front tweeter and left front woofer speakers, a link to the Airbag module, 2 CAN links to the BSI, a link to the battery positive via the BSI, 4 links to the marque service button and the emergency call button, earths and signal wires, further links to the NG4 microphone wiring and of course links to the SIM card panel unit.

The unit itself is located inside the right hand side dashboard - probably behind the passenger glovebox on a left hand drive. This system is not designed to be retro-fitted and is installed at factory with the specific harness because of the tight system integration and wiring.