Bargain Basement Electric

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 9701
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 761

Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 12 Nov 2019, 22:02

nf own work
nf own work
Now then, anyone got a tab packet?

Could this be made to work? Assume this

1200 miles/month
Current fuel consumption say 10 miles/litre
Current Fuel Price say £1.28/litre
Electricity Cost say 1/4 of Petrol cost
Finance over 48 Months

Not bargain Bargain Basement Motoring as I currently practice, but the difference between petrol and electricity costs for a highish annual milage can make the numbers more affordable for many I suspect.

Not much choice of course for second hand ev's its basically a Leaf or a Zoe and most if not all Zoes you see for sale have the additional battery lease millstone.

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 15 Nov 2019, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16939
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 663

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by myglaren » 12 Nov 2019, 22:16

↟↟ Apropos that, I read this morning in a Swedish paper that someone in Stockholm has discovered he is paying 4x petrol costs to charge his electric car.
Details behind a paywall unfortunately.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
donor 2019
Posts: 1379
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 431

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by mickthemaverick » 12 Nov 2019, 22:45

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 22:02
Image

Now then, anyone got a tab packet?

Could this be made to work? Assume this

1200 miles/month = 14400 per annum
Current fuel consumption say 10 miles/litre =1440 x 1.28 =£1843.20 per annum
Current Fuel Price say £1.28/litre
Electricity Cost say 1/4 of Petrol cost = £460.80 per annum
Finance over 48 Months 4 x (1843.20-460.80) = £5529.60 available to repay finance so you would need a £5kish deposit!!

Not bargain Bargain Basement Motoring as I currently practice, but the difference between petrol and electricity costs for a highish annual milage can make the numbers more affordable for many I suspect. Resell at end of 4 years to regain as much of the deposit as possible

Not much choice of course for second hand ev's its basically a Leaf or a Zoe and most if not all Zoes you see for sale have the additional battery lease millstone.

Regards Neil
I guess it could work if the batteries lasted long enough for reasonable residual value!! :)

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 9701
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 761

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 12 Nov 2019, 22:56

Yes The net just over 100/month over 48 months and at the end of it providing nothing drastic goes on it will have a residual value. Many people pay very much more than £110 is a month on pure finance for the priviledge of owning a car (excluding maintenance/insurance etc). There is of course the zero tax for the EV as well.

Regards Neil

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 9701
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 761

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 13 Nov 2019, 09:27

Current residuals on 2011/2012 Leafs over £5,000 so every chance the residual on that Leaf is likely to be of that order. If it is it effectively means that over the next 4 years that leaf will cost the same, as paying for the fuel only for 60,000 miles in my current bargain basement Micra.

Of course My Micra is zero depreciation and no financing costs, so its surprising that a £10,000 electric car by my tab packet calculations has the chance of being equally bargain basement motoring, or not far off.

Alternative tab packet calculations welcomed, mine may be *way off beam!

Regards Neil

PS * just used that automatically but was curious where it came from...
"way off beam"
If something is way off beam, it is completely wrong or mistaken. Some of his remarks were way off beam. Note: This refers to the use of a radio signal or beam to direct aircraft which were coming in to land. A radio transmitter on one side of the runway transmitted dots, or short tones, while one on the other side transmitted dashes, or long tones. If pilots were coming in on the right course, the dots and dashes merged and the pilots heard a continuous tone.

User avatar
Paul-R
Posts: 3634
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
x 289

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by Paul-R » 13 Nov 2019, 10:08

Yes but a Nissan Leaf? It's as ugly as a baboon's bum. And that seems to be the problem with ALL the small electric vehicles. They're just plain hideous. It's only Tesla who seem to have their finger on the design pulse.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 9701
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 761

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 13 Nov 2019, 10:20

I agree Paul but I dont think Teslas will ever appear in this thread. Yes they are far better/longer range/ even a touch prettier although the Model X dont look that good to me. Currently the second hand market is all Leaf/Zoe, with the C1/Peugeot Ion/ etc being pretty thin on the ground.

Buy/rent new anything and you are into very heavy monthly repayments and flushing a large amount of depreciation down the toilet but you may get prettier and better range in return. I do like the new little Honda or maybe a new Kia Soul, but they are way off topic for a bargain basement electric thread right now. Give it 5 years and they may make an appearance :-D

Regards Neil

Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 9683
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 255

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by Peter.N. » 14 Nov 2019, 11:35

They are only really cheap to run if you charge them at home on 'off peak' electricity'. They will do 3-4 miles per Kwh so at night time rate of around 8p per kwh, that would equate to 2-3p per mile, but at a fast charging point it could be a lot more expensive.

Peter

User avatar
mickthemaverick
donor 2019
Posts: 1379
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 431

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by mickthemaverick » 14 Nov 2019, 11:52

Reading your post there Peter brings another issue to mind. Assuming Simon will correct me if I've got this wrong, it is my understanding that the charging of a BEV does require a significant current draw which will increase with the number of vehicles being charged. Now in my experience the majority of households these days have at least two cars with many having three and some having four or more. Given that all vehicles will need charging on the overnight "cheap" rate then the total demand on an individual premises' supply will probably be greater overnight than during the day when most of the household will be out and the cars away. Thus will the electricity companys re-evaluate the peak periods and their charges to follow and hence the charging will have to be done at the newly redefined peak periods? :wink:

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2016
Posts: 2691
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 641

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by bobins » 14 Nov 2019, 12:00

I think you'll find that's one of the main reasons they've rolled out smart electricity meters - modifying demand by variable rate charging.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
donor 2019
Posts: 1379
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 431

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by mickthemaverick » 14 Nov 2019, 12:06

bobins wrote:
14 Nov 2019, 12:00
I think you'll find that's one of the main reasons they've rolled out smart electricity meters - modifying demand by variable rate charging.
Yes I agree there Bobins, which in turn shows that the marketing of BEVs with the "cheap to charge at home" label could be described as a huge industry con to sell cars and then reap extra profits from the power industry. Looks like the family bike is going to be the only real way to travel clean and save - you just won't be going very far!! :-D

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2016
Posts: 2691
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 641

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by bobins » 14 Nov 2019, 12:20

Prices would be maintained to either a level that the public will sustain or to a level that modifies their behaviour in line with Govt. targets.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 9701
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 761

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 14 Nov 2019, 12:50

mickthemaverick wrote:
14 Nov 2019, 12:06
. Looks like the family bike is going to be the only real way to travel clean and save - you just won't be going very far!! :-D
More posts for the "On your Bike Thread"

Yes its a pre-requisite for getting the "off-peak" or special tariffs that your meter is up to it...and these days that means a smart meter. How long they stay off peak or special is another matter but in general if any benefits are to be had its for those jumping in first. My tab packet calculations if Scottish Power's advertising is to be believed may be a bit pessimistic!
screenshot
screenshot
I have put the meaningless advertising phrase "up to" into Room 101 up to 10 years ago.

Regards Neil

Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 9683
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 255

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by Peter.N. » 14 Nov 2019, 12:51

I think you are all quite correct but I am only thinking of things as they are at the moment, not long term. I'm also thinking about the battery capacity of that car, comparatively low compared with many but even with that assuming that its charged at 3kw that will only give 21kw capacity over 7 hours of charging assuming 100% efficiency which we don't have.

Having said that it would be sufficient for everyday running about which I think is what electric cars are best at. Many 'second' cars are only used for shopping and perhaps the school run and socialising locally. I the '50's when I worked in London there were quite a few electric vehicles about running on lead acid batteries, Harrods had them so they obviously did the job.

At present its a case of 'horses for courses', we do a trip to the north of Scotland every year and also to North Yorkshire, even the largest capacity batteries would need recharging at least twice on the Scotland trip, on my diesel C5 I can get there and part of the way back way back on a full tank of fuel. I think that by the time electric vehicles have supremacy I will either be not here or not driving so it doesn't worry me a great deal.

Peter

User avatar
mickthemaverick
donor 2019
Posts: 1379
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 431

Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by mickthemaverick » 14 Nov 2019, 13:29

Peter.N. wrote:
14 Nov 2019, 12:51
I will either be not here or not driving so it doesn't worry me a great deal.

Peter
In my case I'd rather be the first if I had to be the second!! :) :) :)