My Engine

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XUD Marine
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My Engine

Post by XUD Marine » 30 Jun 2019, 10:47

Hello, I'm new here and new to the world of French engines, I say engine because I don't own a French car but do own an XUD7 1.8 engine which i'm in the process of marinising for a boat project.
I'm no mechanic but don't mind having a go at basic stuff. Most of what I need to do to the engine to prepare for the boat is plumbing and wiring, but I will need a bit of help getting to know what's what on the engine, mostly relating to the cooling system.
I have been scouring the internet for info and found a bit, but still have a lot of questions. I did find a Berlingo Haynes manual on-line which mentions the 1.8 XUD, but it looks like a later version where the thermostat looks different. I also saw early XUD manuals for sale on Ebay with the same looking thermostat, but diferent and only mentioning 1.7 and 1.9 models.
A friend bought the engine on Ebay, so I don't know what vehicle and of what year it came out of. So for a start it would help to identify which version or from which time the engine is.
Hopefully you can ID from the photos.
Left02.jpg
This is the left side after fitting the new sump.
right01.jpg
The right side after cleaning, painting and fitting the marine exhaust manifold.
left03.jpg
The left side with dirive plates, bell housing, starter and gearbox fitted.
blue01.jpg
And finaly a rear view at the same stage.
Hopefully you can ID the engine from these.
I do have more for identifying specific parts, but I think that's engough for one post.

Hope this is the correct section for this topic.

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white exec
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Re: My Engine

Post by white exec » 30 Jun 2019, 11:48

Can you find the Engine No.?
It looks like early type XUD, and XUD7 non-turbo....
Haynes have an engine manual that covers these, ref.1379. You should be able to find one on Ebay or Amazon.

Very striking, the Smurf Blue \:D/

Wonder how the engine might fare in salt water, or will it be inland-fresh?
Direct cooling by water intake, or some kind of heat exchanger?
The thermostat will have a lot of work to do if the former.
A working temp gauge essential, I'd guess.

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Re: My Engine

Post by GiveMeABreak » 30 Jun 2019, 11:55

There should be an identification plate on the engine as shown below: I have taken the cooling diagram from a 1.8D XUD7, but identification would be better or a VIN.
XUD7 Cooling System C.PNG
( 1) engine type stamped plate.
(2) identification plate.
(A) component number.
(B) production serial number.
XUD7 Cooling System.PNG
(1) heater matrix.
(2) bleed screw(s) .
( 3) coolant outlet housing.
(4) Radiator drain tap.
(5) Radiator.
(6) Expansion vessel.
(7) Oil / water heat exchanger.
XUD7 Cooling SystemB.PNG
XUD7 Cooling SystemB.PNG (14.52 KiB) Viewed 238 times
Coolant outlet housing :
(a) Cylinder head side
(b) Coolant outlet

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Re: My Engine

Post by XUD Marine » 30 Jun 2019, 12:52

Thanks for the info.
number01.jpg
This is one plate, it looks like 1CU1B 039421
The other little plate with Type on it says 162.
I'm based in the Humber Estuary which is brackish water, though I would like to go up the coast with it when done.
Lancing Marine do a marinisation kit for the XUD so they are used on boats, they supplied the drive plate, bell houding, front mounting brackets and manifold. Though I tried to get as much of the kit as I could used from Ebay and suchlike because it gets silly expensive.
The cooling kit I have is the salt water pump driven on the front pulley (seen on side view) which pulls water through the hull. Then to header tank and heat exchanger in one, which replaces the car radiator and tank. Then another heat exchanger which will be the oil cooler. Lancing said if it's a steady away canal boat I don't nee it, but if you are giving it some revs I will. The oil cooler I got is a bit big really, not sure if it's overkill. Lastly the salt water will split and go into the two ports in the exhaust manifold that go into a water jacket to cool the manifold and gasses, then the water is dumped into the exhaust pipe and is blown out the back.
So that's the route of the salt water, next to work out the route of the coolant and oil.
pump01.jpg
At the water pump there seems to be 5 ports. I know one will receive cool water from the radiator/heat exhange, I'm guessing 1. but here is another large one facing back (3), a smaller one at an angle (2), the two small ones (4 & 5) I'm guessing those are for the heater, or is that the other two?
Therm01.jpg
At the thermostat there is one big port which I beleive sends warm coolant to the heat exchange. But then there is a small one on top (3). Though your diagram looks like the later thermostat, I guess that's for expansion, so that would go to the heat exchange too, since it's a header tank combined.

As for the oil, I'm not sure. There is a port on the oil filler (4) which goes nowhere, what's that for?
My oil filter is direct onto the engine, I don't have the gadget with the two ports on the top I have seen on other engine pictures. I guess I need one of those and the pipes go to the cooler.

I did mark some other parts on that picture, but they may be for another topic, the two spade connections on the thermostat, I guess one is a temp sensor, the other for the stop?
Also the glow plug connector, does that just need power, or something first to control when it's on?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: My Engine

Post by GiveMeABreak » 30 Jun 2019, 14:40

Unfortunately there are stacks of variations on these engines.So without a VIN from the originating vehicle I won't be able to provide anything more useful. That plate ID isn't returning anything unfortunately.

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Re: My Engine

Post by moizeau » 30 Jun 2019, 16:21

Nice project. No.4 is the crankcase breather that would normally go back to the air filter.
The glowplugs should all be connected together and they are fed from a glow plug relay/timer unit. The unit is common across a lot of old XUD engines and would be easily available at the tat yard. The thermostat housing is slightly different to mine. If you google XUD7 Visa or 309 or 205, or rover 218 you should be able to find out more. Citroen called it a 1.7 litre engine, Peugeot and Rover a 1.8.
Good luck

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white exec
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Re: My Engine

Post by white exec » 30 Jun 2019, 16:45

You must get hold of the Haynes manual (#1379), which covers Citroen Diesel Engine (XUD), '84 onwards.
There were two editions (brown cover and later blue cover reprint), either will do.
One available here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haynes-Manual- ... =8-1-fkmr0
and some on Ebay.

It contains all the information you need and have asked for above, including the cooling system and connections.
Covers 1.7 ("1.8") and 1.9, non-turbo and turbo.

Back then, Haynes manuals were really well written and illustrated. This is one of the best.

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Re: My Engine

Post by GiveMeABreak » 30 Jun 2019, 16:59

The XUD7 1.8D here has a capacity of 1769cc so in between both really I suppose and was also the same 1.8D in the Peugeot Partner. PSA use the same engines of course, but they didn't have a 1.7D designation on the early Berlingo or Partner models.

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Re: My Engine

Post by XUD Marine » 30 Jun 2019, 19:32

A little bit of progress made this afternoon with the header tank/heat exchanger mounted on the front, but can't go much further until I identify all those hose ports.
front01.jpg
Front end with header tank and sea water pump.
left04.jpg
The side view.
GiveMeABreak wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 14:40
So without a VIN from the originating vehicle I won't be able to provide anything more useful. That plate ID isn't returning anything unfortunately.

OK, thanks for looking.
moizeau wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 16:21
No.4 is the crankcase breather that would normally go back to the air filter.

That must be 4 on the last picture, on the oil filler, that makes sense now.
moizeau wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 16:21
The glowplugs should all be connected together and they are fed from a glow plug relay/timer unit.

They are connected together, but not to anything else being removed from the vehicle. I thought there had to be something on the other end of the wire to tell them when to be on/off, so that answers that.
moizeau wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 16:21
Citroen called it a 1.7 litre engine, Peugeot and Rover a 1.8.

So when I see things referring to the 1.7 engine, it's the exact same engine.
white exec wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 16:45
You must get hold of the Haynes manual (#1379), which covers Citroen Diesel Engine (XUD), '84 onwards.

Will do thanks.

So now I've had time to look at and digest that system diagram, followed by some Google in the absence of a manual yet, I think I have a better idea what those hose ports are.
The one thing I'm still unclear on is oil cooling. When I asked Lancing about needing an oil cooler I assumed we were talking about the marine style sea water cooled ones, as that's what I'm used to seeing on a boat.
I have this one.
cooler01.jpg
Huge oil cooler.
Which is probably too big for the engine , no idication of scale there but it's about 6" diameter, the concern is it won't ever get warm, let alone hot.
But when I look on Lancing's pricebook, it shows the filter mount style cooler used in vehicles, so maybe I just need that instead.
Note they want £238 ex VAT for one. :shock:
https://www.lancingmarine.com/pricebook ... age17.html
So when I look on Ebay for an XUD7 oil cooler I find this:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-205- ... Sw8AhaS~cp
Which is the gadget I already have on my engine and explains what the two small hose ports are.
But further investigation reveals that is actually the fuel heater, but at least answers the question.

So I probably want the filter mount style cooler, which will simplify my sea water system and make the big cooler redundant. Just need to find the right one for the engine. I don't really want to pay £285 for one when they are under £100 new on Ebay.

So here is what I now think the hose ports are:-
pump01.jpg
1. Return from heater.
2. Return from expansion (redundant in my case)
3. Return from radiator
4. Cold Fuel in
5. Warm fuel out
Therm01.jpg
3. Overflow to expansion
4. Crankcase Breather
And "To Rad?" is exactly that, hot warer to the radiator.

Am I on the right track?

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Re: My Engine

Post by white exec » 30 Jun 2019, 19:56

On these mixed-metal engines, it is essential that the cooling circuit is running protective (corrosion-inhibited) coolant - the same as vehicle use. This also applies to the "pancake" style oil cooler (heat exchanger) which sits under the oil filter. (If this cooler were to internally corrode/perforate, engine oil under pressure would be injected into the cooling system, rapidly filling it with engine oil.)

Long and short is for you to keep the seawater and engine coolant completely separated - by the heat exchanger - which you have in hand already.

The small pipe connection (#3) on top of the water outlet is the expansion connection to the header tank, and which allows any trapped air to escape. The two electrical sensors behind it (#1 & 2) are for temperature gauge and high-temperature (dash light) warning.

When you get round to running the engine up, it is important to bleed the cooling system thoroughly, to remove any trapped air. Refer to the engine manual for the technique. Air can get trapped in pockets in the cylinder head, and can cause hot-spots and localised overheating. Left unchecked, this can damage the head gasket and warp the flat aluminium cylinder head.

My own recommendation for coolant would be standard glycol type (not long life OAT), and good old 20W-50 oil for the sump, changed at the equivalent of 6000-mile* intervals. Looked after like this, engine wear at 200,000 miles+ should be negligible. Peak torque for the engine will be at just 2000rpm.

* This could be about 200 hours of running, if you fit an hours meter.

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Re: My Engine

Post by XUD Marine » 30 Jun 2019, 20:34

Thanks for the info. I have just ordered an engine manual. I'll get some oil and coolant this week.

I'm thinking I will be better off getting the "pancake" style cooler, it should be easier to set up and mount as it's a more standard set up for the engine, plus one less close encounter with sea water for the engine. A leak in that core could be salt water into the actual engine and oil into the sea, though they are commonly used on marine engines and gearboxes.

Looking for a cooler, I think maybe part number 1103G3 is the one, but most sellers only mention the 1.9 engine except this one in USA.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-XSAR ... 2893350993
I'm only seeing used ones sold in Europe which only metion 1.9 but have the same part No.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Oil-C ... 2617609605
Then there are some new aftermarket ones which may or may not be compatible. :?

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Re: My Engine

Post by white exec » 30 Jun 2019, 20:56

The oil coolers for 1.7/1.9 (and 2.1) are interchangeable; either will do.
Fitted to a whole range of Cit/Peu engines.

As well as the pancake cooler, you'll need the tubular through-bolt for it, and of the correct length for the cooler. (Made in a whole range of lengths to suit cooler thickness.). Thread is M20 iirc.
You could easily find both cooler and through-bolt at a scrapyard.

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Re: My Engine

Post by moizeau » 30 Jun 2019, 20:56

1.7 and 1.9 are pretty much the same. Same oil filter, same cam belt, water pump, glow plugs etc. Oh and do a cam belt, water pump change. A lot easier in your situation than when the engines fitted in a car! Go for a Gates, it's the standard fitment. Also check the rocker cover gasket and crank seal. Look after this engine and it will outlive the boat. I put 450000miles on a N/A 1.9 and it still gave 50 mpg on a run at 70. The car died, the engine drove itself to the weigh-in!. I have the manuals you're after so if you need a particular bit scanning..ask.

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Re: My Engine

Post by XUD Marine » 30 Jun 2019, 21:33

moizeau wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 20:56
Oh and do a cam belt, water pump change. A lot easier in your situation than when the engines fitted in a car!

I was reluctant to touch the cam belt, but you are probably right, I have no idea of the age, service history or milage of it. It may be prudent to do that now where it's easy(er) and have peace of mind that it's done and not be caught out in the blue yonder.
Thanks for the manual offer, but I did just order one, should arrive in the week.

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Re: My Engine

Post by white exec » 30 Jun 2019, 22:11

Belt change with engine out is dead easy. Full instructions in Haynes.