Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 6551
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 315

Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by xantia_v6 » 25 Apr 2019, 03:43

https://www.drxantia.com/index.php/en/ appears to be a Turkish supplier of hydraulic parts who is attempting to get into the markiet of supplying after-market spares for Xantia parts that are now obsolete. Their pricing seems very reasonable.

I have no other knowledge of the company.

User avatar
Stickyfinger
Donor 2016
Posts: 9572
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:05
x 633

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Stickyfinger » 25 Apr 2019, 08:02

Good find..........

dragen
Posts: 28
Joined: 25 Jun 2014, 11:02
x 2

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by dragen » 25 Apr 2019, 09:32

Nice, would be great to have reasonably priced access to spheres here in NZ if you have come across them Alasdair?

User avatar
Stickyfinger
Donor 2016
Posts: 9572
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:05
x 633

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Stickyfinger » 25 Apr 2019, 09:45

Well....I think Spheres are VERY sensitive to QC checks/Materials...I would need to be persuaded to move away from "Originals"...I do however plan to start switching my Spheres to the modern Grey Pancake twin membrane types on my Activa using the conversion inserts available from Activa Club France.

http://www.activa-club.fr/ActivaShop/en ... coupe.html

Image

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 4462
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 577

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by white exec » 25 Apr 2019, 10:12

A translation of the ActivaShop's description of the item:

" Adapter allowing the installation of a saucer instead of a sphere connected by a tube.

The piece is inserted between the support with its arrival tube and the sphere.
The adapter is screwed on the original support.
The arrival tube, receives a standard Citroën gasket (seal, new!) And screws into the adapter, on the support side.
It only remains to screw the saucer (possibly cleared of its damper if it has one), after placing the square seal.
The piece is steel protected by colorless bichromation.

The adapter is used on Xantia,
- ACTIVA models for the accumulator sphere of the SC-CAR (located at the bottom of the engine compartment, left side, just behind the front hydractive sphere)
- all models equipped with the SC-MAC for the anti-sag sphere (located at the center at the bottom of the rear axle). "

adaptateur-sphere-vers-soucoupe.jpg
The threads and mounting are the same on the two types of sphere, so I presume the adaptor is to provide adequate clearance for the larger-diameter saucer spheres.

User avatar
Stickyfinger
Donor 2016
Posts: 9572
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:05
x 633

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Stickyfinger » 25 Apr 2019, 10:20

It is for clearance yes.....other spheres can also be switched to the "New" type as well.

REMEMBER
You will need a C5 type Sphere removal tool as well.

User avatar
Stickyfinger
Donor 2016
Posts: 9572
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:05
x 633

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Stickyfinger » 25 Apr 2019, 10:30


User avatar
DrXantia
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Apr 2019, 20:30

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by DrXantia » 25 Apr 2019, 20:36

xantia_v6 wrote:
25 Apr 2019, 03:43
https://www.drxantia.com/index.php/en/ appears to be a Turkish supplier of hydraulic parts who is attempting to get into the markiet of supplying after-market spares for Xantia parts that are now obsolete. Their pricing seems very reasonable.

I have no other knowledge of the company.


Hi All,
Thank you for sharing my web address.
I'm out here from now on. I came to help and benefit from the experience of other Xantia owners.
I am here and open to any question.

User avatar
Stickyfinger
Donor 2016
Posts: 9572
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:05
x 633

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Stickyfinger » 25 Apr 2019, 23:49

Hello....welcome

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7855
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 211

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Mandrake » 19 Aug 2019, 22:00

Stickyfinger wrote:
25 Apr 2019, 09:45
Well....I think Spheres are VERY sensitive to QC checks/Materials...I would need to be persuaded to move away from "Originals"...I do however plan to start switching my Spheres to the modern Grey Pancake twin membrane types on my Activa using the conversion inserts available from Activa Club France.

http://www.activa-club.fr/ActivaShop/en ... coupe.html

Image
The centre bore in that adaptor looks far too small in diameter not to affect the flow characteristics of the spheres.

The area of the hole is much smaller than the combined area of the through holes under the washer valves in a sphere...

My question is why would they do that unnecessarily ?

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 4462
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 577

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by white exec » 19 Aug 2019, 23:31

Good question, Simon.
The four large holes under the sprung washers would rarely (if ever) be opened "full bore", but just partially uncovered by the lifting of the washer(s) - so maybe the drilling in tbe adaptor isn't too bad? :dunno:
Easy enough to enlarge, if anyone wanted to do that.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7855
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 211

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Mandrake » 20 Aug 2019, 06:35

On the contrary, the washer valves would open on every large bump impact, as the large instantaneous flow rate would demand it - the centre bypass bore on a sphere damper valve (even the regular non-hydractive type) only allows for that very slow rebound characteristic speed. If you push the suspension down and release, the movement speed as it rebounds to equilibrium again is the flow rate through the centre bore only. Any movement significantly more violent than that gentle rebound needs to flow through the washer valves.

The valves and sphere pressures are tuned so that the rebound force is too weak to open washer valves (so a slow, controlled rebound in either compression or extension directions through that centre bore) but that regular bumps are strong enough to open the washer valves slightly - and thus can be easily absorbed.

It's not that it would't work, but it would definitely affect the overall response of the sphere somewhat and may lessen the ability to absorb large bumps.

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 4462
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 577

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by white exec » 20 Aug 2019, 08:12

Mandrake wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 06:35
On the contrary, the washer valves would open on every large bump impact, as the large instantaneous flow rate would demand it . . . Any movement significantly more violent than that gentle rebound needs to flow through the washer valves.
Yes, the washer-valves will open, but never more than slightly. Examined up close, the valve multiple washer stack is in reality an extremely rigid affair, never designed to be fully opened...
Valve parts_zpsvgsx0cxv.jpg
Valve parts_zpsvgsx0cxv.jpg (10.59 KiB) Viewed 95 times
DSCF2714p_zpslnumsw2e.jpg
DSCF2720p.jpg
DSCF2724p.jpg
...but to be "cracked open", and then to spring back.
As such, they never operate fully open, as that would involve permanent upward deformation.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7855
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 211

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by Mandrake » 20 Aug 2019, 21:17

That stack of washers might seem extremely rigid to a curious fingernail or pocket screwdriver but keep in perspective the forces acting on it. :)

You have hundreds of kilograms of mass inertia of the car trying to hold the body in place, you hit a bump, the wheel moves and the body (mostly) doesn't, the suspension arm/piston diameter leverage applies hundreds of pounds of hydraulic force on..... a tiny little stack of spring washers which can be bent up with a small screwdriver, whose job it is to resist the rebound of the mass of 1/4 of the car body...

When you think about it it's quite incredible that a tiny valve that size can be such an effective shock absorber, especially when compared to a regular hydraulic strut shock absorber.

To get the best balance of ride softness and stability through damping you want the threshold valves to not open for rebound (in either direction, since you can get rebound from a dip just as you can from a bump) so that the rebound is forced to flow slowly only through that small bypass hole, but to open for bumps, even modest ones, so that they can be absorbed.

That's in fact how most hydraulic Citroen's are tuned from the factory, and I think this is somewhat unique among cars and only made possible thanks to the very soft spring rate of the suspension compared to regular suspension, and I think is a good part of what gives a Hydraulic Citroen that rather unique damping feel that most other cars don't have.

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 4462
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 577

Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias

Post by white exec » 20 Aug 2019, 21:36

I agree with your description, Simon, but the fact remains that the washer valves never "open fully", in the sense that the large flow holes (two in each direction) are unrestrictedly open as if the washers were not there. They may crack open by a good few degrees (no idea by how much exactly) but never anything even approaching 45°, or they would surely become permanently bent.

Given that - the holes never operating "fully open", the drilling in the adaptor doesn't look too restricting.