How long should a ram last?

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 14 Jan 2010, 17:22

One of the main reasons I bought my Activa was because of the history of recent expensive repairs done to it by the previous owner. These included replacement of the rear ram, cambelt, heater matrix and radiator, all at a Citroen dealer.

It now appears that the rear ram has started leaking rather badly - I now know that the float in my LHM reservoir isn't stuck, and a spare bottle is in the boot...

The ram was replaced in January 2008, so it is two years old, and the car has covered 10,000 miles in that time. To me, that doesn't seem like a reasonable life for such an expensive repair. My question is this: would I have a case (in the Small Claims Court if necessary) against the garage for the repair not being up to a reasonable standard? And if there was a case, would the fact that the previous owner had the repair done be a factor?

All opinions appreciated!

Thanks,

James

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 14 Jan 2010, 17:30

That seems an inordinately short lifetime for a ram

I would expected to have seen considerably longer life.

Was the LHM replaced and flushed at the same time as it was replaced? I have a thought (very unproven) that LHM, freshness, quality and cleanliness has an effect on ram life.

As to recompense. Pass. Not an area I know anything of at all

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 15 Jan 2010, 07:50

It could also be a bad ram, for reasons of poor manufacture or non-ideal storage.

I'd be looking for a tame hydraulic repairer to perform a post-mortem. It may be readily fixable, or possibly not. My money would be on bore deterioration, causing seal damage.

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 15 Jan 2010, 22:52

Jim, the LHM was changed (by Westroen) about 3 months after the ram change. All the spheres apart from the 2 rear ones were changed at the same time. (The 2 rear ones had already been done by Citroen - at £71.39 each, plus £90 labour, plus £20 LHM

).

Unfortunately, I've little confidence in the ability of Citroen dealers to carry out work on these cars, although the dealer in question has been a Cit dealer since at least 1991. (I used to live across the road when I was at Uni!). The history bundle I've got contains several comments of "Diag Not 100%"! Well, if they don't know....

I'm sure that if this was a regular damper, it would be considered 'Not fit for purpose'. Does anybody have any idea of my consumer rights as regards this? I'm sure the CAB would just fob me off.

James

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 15 Jan 2010, 23:36

I would imagine your recourse would be to who you bought it from, not the garage as you weren't their customer.
As it was a private sale it's caveat emptor.
So unless the seller gave you a warranty or sold you it saying the ram was new when it actually wasn't, you're out of luck.
However, if the receipt is still available, you could claim that the garage sold it to you, or if you're on good terms with the seller, ask him to go to the garage and demand the ram is replaced as faulty.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 15 Jan 2010, 23:49

What's the guarantee on lifespan with a new part from Citroen themselves? Wouldn't this failure be more laid at their door than the garage fitting it.
With these damned things 400odd quid, if their manufacture isn't fit for
purpose there must me grounds for a claim against the manufacturer and
ultimitely Citroen after your production of the ram and purchase reciept
- there must be a batch manufacture code on it as these things do now?

Am I bring too optimistic and simplistic? Thought so...

Andrew

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 15 Jan 2010, 23:56

Good point Andrew, could pop down to the citroen dealer or contact citroen UK, and explain the situation to them, saying the ram has failed and it's not that old.
You may have to pay for an inspection to confirm that it was installed properly so was a manufacturing fault.
I wouldn't discount the CAB either.
If you get nowhere with Citroen, then you could try the small claims court, or whatever process you should follow to claim for faulty goods.
Remember, warranty or not, you are legally entitled to be sold something that lasts a reasonable amount of time, the length of which depends on the item.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 16 Jan 2010, 00:12

If it's knackered, the last thing I'd be doing is to return it to the manufacturer without an independent prior diagnosis. That's flushing your hard earned - and any prospects of redress - down the tube. Standing defects will be obvious to an expert, and any with good accreditation would have little worry about putting their findings into a short letter.

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 16 Jan 2010, 00:17

I think you're both right. But getting it sorted might be another matter...

Andrew, I doubt Citroen would place a life on the ram. But to me, it's a non-service item, and should be expected to last at least maybe 6 years or 50,000 miles. If it's failed so soon, the part or it's fitting must be faulty.

Xac, I still have the receipt. But I know from experience that getting satisfaction from a dealer is like getting blood from a stone, even with a warranty! I can't see them paying up without a fight. Might have to try it though - visible amounts of Citroen Blood are being lost each day.

Of course, I've not had a good look underneath yet

although the fluid is defintely dripping from the bottom of the ram. Is there anywhere else that could leak fluid onto here? I have noticed that the back is dropping quite quickly after switching off recently. Could the extreme (!) cold of recent weeks make things worse?

Thanks for the input,

James

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 16 Jan 2010, 08:07

If you havent looked underneath yet dont suspect the worst. The return pipe can fall out when doing Citrobics, usually on low. Check that first. 2 years would be appaling for the return stub to split.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 18 Jan 2010, 21:31

Any news James?

I ask as I nearly fainted a couple of days ago. I looked under my Activa, doing the routine weekly checks and noticed a puddle of LHM below the rear ram and a drip from the end of it

I'm sure I turned a whiter shade of pale... I know also my rams are newish as well. About the same age as yours...

Funny thing is, now, after using it well for a few days, the weep has almost completely stopped.

I did a bit of forensics and found the weep was from the circular rubber collar that forms part of the leakage return assembly. The bit shown by the arrows here in this picture:

Sliding up the plastic gaiter showed it bone dry under there so it's not the ram piston seals leaking

I reckon it's a combination of the cold weather and a lack of regular use that's caused it. The rubber that forms the leakage return assembly may have gone hard and shrank...

State of my spheres

They were brand new in 2008

They don't paint 'em like they used to

So, recheck yours James. Hopefully it'll be the same as mine and will have stopped now the weather is a bit kinder and the rubber has softened and plimmed out again...

I'm using my Activa regularly again now. I'm getting the feeling that not using it much is doing it no good at all...

Besides, I was forgetting how to drive a manual!

KP · Unread post by KP » 19 Jan 2010, 10:09

Why not use the activa 3 days a week and the v6 2 days a week jim?

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 19 Jan 2010, 10:41

Is that because 4×3=6×2 ?

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 19 Jan 2010, 19:13

CitroJim wrote:I know also my rams are newish as well. About the same age as yours...

I replaced that ram on the 21st April 2007 at 101555 miles, it was a special order for the dealer, hmm not impressed if its leaking already

.

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 19 Jan 2010, 19:20

CitroJim wrote:Any news James?

Still leaking Jim. I've not had a chance to get a good look at it yet. It's not pouring out, but there's a definite green spot after it's been parked a few hours. I had to add a little LHM at weekend too.

It hasn't warmed up much here, although it is above freezing for now. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that it sorts itself out, but I'm not confident...

James