C4 Picasso II engine start is delayed by 28 seconds

[sar77]

Hi, hello everyone.
I am hoping for your help in finding out one foult with the 2014 Citroen C4 Picasso blueHdi 2.0 110 kW (diesel), VIN: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].
This foult appeared about a year ago. It would seem that the reason for this failure is clear. And I thought so at first. But let's not rush to judge.
Every time, summer or winter, when I try to start the engine first time in the morning or after short or long driving, after turning on the ignition (after press Start button) I have to wait about 28 seconds for the glow plug check light to go out on the dash. And only then I can start engine.
During the 28-second period while the engine start is blocked, the relay does not supply power to the glow plugs. At the end of this 28 sec period, when starting the engine and for some time afterwards the glow plugs work as they should.
Apart from this minus, absolutely all the sistems and funkcions of the machine both before and after starting the engine work properly. Except for the Start/Stop system, which started working after the battery was replaced 2.5 years ago, but stopped working one and a half months later. (Error code P1AA2 49).
Diagnostics does not show any errors. All sensors (outside air temperature, coolant temperature, oil temperature, intake air temperature, etc.) atmospheric pressure, SCR system, FAP filter - OK.
A few observations that I think are important and could help identify the causes of the problem:
1. Sometimes (approximately once in 30-50 engine starts) the engine starts immediately.
2. When the key of the keyless entry and start system is not inserted into the reader, while holding down the clutch, after pressing the Start button the glow plug lamp lights up, after about 7 seconds, the message "Key not detected" appears on the panel, which disappears for 17 seconds, and after 28 seconds the light turns off, again after pressing the Start button the engine starts.
3. When the key is inserted into the reader, while holding down the clutch, after pressing the Start button the glow plug light comes on, the message “Key not detected” does not appear, and after 28 seconds the starter engages and the engine starts (without pressing the Start button again).
4. When the clutch is not depressed, when the ignition is turned on, it doesn't matter if the key is in the reader or not, the light is on for 28 seconds and when it goes out, the engine starts when the clutch is depressed and the Start button is pressed.
The list of car equipment includes "vehicle with additional heating preequipment". What does this mean? Maybe the fault is related to this strange equipment?
Anyone have any thoughts? Thank you in advance.

[ammetto]

Hi Sarunas,
Most likely it's me and you on earth having similar issue.
Was in Citroen in Milano few months ago for another issue, most likely this issue is connected to the start and stop system.
After removing the fuse F2 (not easily reacheable), relevant for the diagnostic socket and the central voltage retention device, the car starts to switch on with no delays (but of course with the service beep...).
Did you have any luck in the meantime?
I put the fuse back otherwise no ODB2 port connection, no service beep but delayed start is back...
Thanks for sharing your updates if any.
Domenico

[sar77]

Hi Dominic,
I haven't done anything further because I don't know what to do.
During this year, I visited three different serious service centers for diagnostics, but no errors were found. One service didn't even take money because they couldn't find the reasons for the failure. (except temporary P1AA2 49 - voltage retaining device).
One interesting observation. Recently, the headlight bulb burned out, the corresponding inscription appeared on the panel and "SERVICE" came on. After replacing the headlight bulb, the message "SERVICE" was still on, but the engine started right away. I tried to start the engine a few more times - it starts right away. I got out of the car, locked and unlocked the door several times, tried to start it again--starts right up, but "SERVICE" is still on. I did the test: I turned off the engine, locked the door and walked away from the car with the key in my pocket. Came back a few minutes later and, and disappointment - the glow plugs light is on, another 28 second wait before being able to start the engine. But the inscription "SERVICE" is no longer there.
Now when the weather gets cold, the engine starts immediately more often - maybe every tenth start, but then the "Service" with Start/Stop light comes on.
So you're right, it has something to do with "Service"
I would be very interested to know how many seconds the startup is delayed for you.
Sarunas

[ammetto]

Ok, sorry to read that.
Had as well a problem with a bulb/service light, in my case before the first delays started. Don't think there is a link.
I need to change the thermostat soon and I'll ask the garage if they have a clue on this issue, I fear not.
I let you know, not giving up.
Thanks

P. S.
In case you want to try removing the fuse, that's the one. Not at all easy to plug it in and out.
It controls the diagnostic socket and the central voltage retention device, your ODB port won't work

[ammetto]

Disabled permanently Start and Stop via diagnostic, didn't change the start delay for the moment.

[sar77]

It's a pity that the attempt did not work, but at least now we know for sure that the Start/Stop system is not to blame for the launch delay.
I have one thought. I would like to check one of the components of the Start/Stop system - the power accumulator by measuring its voltage with a multimeter after the engine is stopped, but I can't think of a simpler way to do it.
The idea is this - maybe it discharges very quickly when the engine is turned off, and during those seconds of delay, when the ignition is turned on, it charges.
During the time (with the ignition on) that I connect through the OBDII diagnostic interface (elm.327) with EOBD-Fasile app, it is possible that the power accumulator has time to charge. App shows me that the voltage at the terminals of the power accumulator is about 4,5V.

[ammetto]

Ok thanks,
just in case have a look at this.
It's a Peugeot but ours has S&S ECU and capacitor in the same place.
S&S ECU should have a direct connection to the main battery.

https://widnesautoelectrical.co.uk/peug ... rt-issues/

[ammetto]

After one week car started quickly, after the first start back to the usual 20-30 seconds delay for the following.
I really think it's the capacitator, when it's discharged ok but when charged triggers the issue.

[sar77]

After a week of parking?
I ask because I noticed something interesting.
After almost a day and a half of parking, before starting the engine, I checked the battery voltage - it was only 12.05V. The engine started right away but the "Service" message came on with a red Start/Stop light on the dashboard. After a short drive (about 10 km) it started fine again, again after a short drive it was fine again, but all the time the Service light was on. When starting the engine for the fourth time, there is a delay again, but "Service" is no longer there. I checked the battery voltage - it had already managed to charge up to 12.58 V. The battery is not yet three years old.
I think if you had checked your battery voltage after a week of parking you would have gotten a similar result.

[ammetto]

Yes, one week parking.
Battery is 2 months old (BPGA drained the old, so had to change battery and BPGA), no service faults after switching on.

[jonnny1975]

Ammetto, is your last post confirming that a change of battery and change of BPGA fully resolved the problem ?

I have the same issue / nightmare for the past year and just bought a new battery today - but problem remains (“vehicle engine fault, have vehicle repaired”, S&S activating and deactivating immediately and constantly, service light on, etc : (

Desperate for a solution - it’s driving me mad

[ammetto]

No, change of BPGA solved my problem of battery drain and faults.
I'm still facing the issue of the delayed start.

[jonnny1975]

Ammatto, huge thanks

How did you fix BPGA? Did you diy fix ? Where do you get part ? Is there a guide for procedure ?

Huge thanks in advance

No, change of BPGA solved my problem of battery drain and faults.
I'm still facing the issue of the delayed start.

[ammetto]

Hi Johnny, I bought it on Aliexpress because it was almost 1/3 of the normal price (~100€ vs >300€).
In my case the part number was 9675349880 but I got one not perfectly as mine - had to move few fuses from mine to the new. I changed it by my own and unfortunately didn't find a guide for it.
Took me around 2h, important is to mark with a tape or similar every cable since for every side there are up to 7-8 cables with different colors. Took also many pictures to be on the safe side, it's easy to get lost mix cables.
Good luck in case you'll try

[jonnny1975]

Once again, huge thank you for your insights, Ammatto.
- This has been most helpful.
Cheers, J

Hi Johnny, I bought it on Aliexpress because it was almost 1/3 of the normal price (~100€ vs >300€).
In my case the part number was 9675349880 but I got one not perfectly as mine - had to move few fuses from mine to the new. I changed it by my own and unfortunately didn't find a guide for it.
Took me around 2h, important is to mark with a tape or similar every cable since for every side there are up to 7-8 cables with different colors. Took also many pictures to be on the safe side, it's easy to get lost mix cables.
Good luck in case you'll try