AL4 General know how search.

[Coney]

Hello all,

I joined your forum because years ago I found a great set of step by step instructions here that helped me repair the pump of the hydro-pneumatic suspension of my

Citroen C5 III Break, [ RWRFJF || 3001 AGG || VIN: VW7RWRFJF9L516356 ]

which I am still very grateful for.


I'm located in the greater Berlin area in Brandenburg, Germany and knowledge on French cars seems to be scarce in this part of Europe.


Trying to cut a long story short, I have disassembled the valve block of my AL4 several times in the past 8 weeks, chasing the error that causes a powerless reverse.

Cleaned all components, changed valves, all to no avail and am on the brink of exchanging the entire block with a refurbished one.


But I read that there are different valve blocks that are not interchangeable.

Roughly there are 2 types, I read, a "2 slots version" for the DPO in Peugeot, Renault, and others, and a "2 slots +1 version" for the AL4 in Citroen.

I combed through the posts here but didn't find anything on the subject, so I decided to pose this direct question:

is there anyone here who knows more on this matter and could give me a kick in the right direction?

Thanks

Coney

[ozvtr]

The long cylindrical device attached to the selector arm quadrant, in the valve body, is called the manual valve.
This directs transmission fluid to the forward drive circuit or the revers drive circuit.
This might be out of alignment.
The selector quadrant needs to be set up a particular way.

[Coney]

Hello ozvtr,

thanks fore the reply. It makes perfect sense.

I did actually have a suspicion in that direction but wouldn't know what else could be adjusted other than aligning the pin of the selector quadrant in the slot at the end of the manual valve.


I set up the selector quadrant with the gear shifting shaft in position 2 (Neutral).

While not having the special tool, I used a large washer to press the leaf spring to the valve block by means of the bolt seen in the hole of the leaf spring.

Then I loosened it 2 complete turns of the bolt for correct preload (corresponding to its shape when retaining bolt is tightened).

Pressed leaf spring hard to right until roller pin was firmly centered in the second stop of selector quadrant.

Tightened retaining bolt of leaf spring to 7.5Nm.

Shifting is correct. Display is correct. No errors.

Do you see anything I did wrong or forgot?

Thanks

Coney

[Coney]

@ozvtr

This would be the procedure that you are referring to, right?

https://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/repair- ... cf07k3.htm

[ozvtr]

Yes, but position 2, according to the Peugeot manual, is 'LOW' not neutral. Low is not on the "modern" selectors with the +and- manual shifters.
The bowden cable ball joint needs to be removed from shifter plate on the top of the gear box and the shifter plate needs to be rotated all the way clockwise until it hits the stop. This will cause the selector quadrant in the gearbox to move to the right until it hits its stop.
Here is a post that I did on a Citroen C3 (that's probably where the washer and the 2 turn screw came from).

https://citroenc3owners.com/automatic-t ... t4732.html

You might need to paste it into the search bar as they don't allow linking.

There are a number of ways to set up the roller spring. This is my interpretation of the "official" way.

[Coney]

The link you posted is the exactly where I followed instructions, or at least tried to. (Link worked, btw.)

Actually I just now noticed that you are the author.
It's truly a very helpful page. Thank you for it.

"(... that's probably where the washer and the 2 turn screw came from ...)". Yes, Sir.

I may actually have tripped over "position 2" because it is relative and I didn't know what it was relative to.


When I turn the lever on top of the case clockwise, clicking (shifting) gears, I decided that position 2 would be the second click.

[But then again second click would actually be position 3, since 0 (shift lever fully counterclockwise) is a position as well]

Since the position of the lever on click 2 was the position I had when I put the transmission in Neutral to install the multifunction switch, it made sense to me.


Since you wrote the instructions, is position 2 the first (or second) click clockwise of the gear selector on top of the case?

Or is it the second detente of the selector quadrant?

They should correspond, though.

Confused. I'll have to drain the transmission and take off the cover (tomorrow) to clear this up.


Thanks for your advice.


Coney

[ozvtr]

No. Position '2' is fully rotated clockwise to the stop (see 2* in the photo). The photo is for illustration. The actual position of the arm might be different.
When you have finished doing the roller spring adjustment, the shifter plate should not have ANY slop in it. No backlash or movement. If it "clicks" a bit do the alignment again.
Following the adjustment of the roller spring, you may need to adjust the multiway switch. Don't rely on the "old" position being correct. It might be, but just be prepared to adjust it.

Don't ask me why it's called position '2' . I had to do a lot of digging to find that. The official documentation says to place the selector in position 2, but it doesn't say where position 2 is!!

[Coney]

Thanks a lot.

Done with breakfast. Sun is shining. I'll go drain and check.

I know the picture you posted quite well. Been brooding over it. Only have "PRND".

Found this in a manual and am now concluding "position 2" would be the red dot (which mine doesn't have ) :




The "C5 Break III exclusive" I am driving has a shift rigging like this:




Well, I'll get to the wrenches ...

[Coney]

This is what I found when going through the "gears":







Disconnecting the shifting rod (the C5 doesn't have a Bowden cable) gave me two more clicks (~15 degrees) clockwise.

I reached "position 2" !

Seems it's the position of the second (low) gear, thus it's [P - R -N - D - 1 - 2] on my version as well.








The selector quadrant turned counterclockwise and brought slot 6 to meet the roller, thus settling in "position 2"!

One can already tell that the roller is not exactly in the slot









It's actually resting on the hill before the slot.



I did not align the internal selector in this position and since the selector is not resting firmly and snug in the notch, this may well be the cause of my problem.

As eager as I am to find out, it will have to wait till Monday, because it's getting dark, I still gotta go for groceries and my kids and grandkids are coming over tomorrow.

[ozvtr]

It looks like that could be your problem.

[Coney]

I'm afraid it wasn't.

Being a bit frustrated, I went to southern France for a few days to get away from it all and am now back to face the devil.

After correctly adjusting the roller to the selector quadrant, the original error remains (an absolutely powerless reverse).

Additionally I have 2 new errors:

Faults present : 2
P1592 : supply to solenoid valves and regulators.
Characterisation : open circuit
Status : Permanent fault
Location : local .

P1706 : press control signal fault.
Characterisation : Not characterised
Status : Permanent fault
Location : local .

Second error is most likely a consequence of error 1.

I guess I'll have to go over the wiring and stay out of the gearbox.

[ozvtr]

Are you saying that there is no power at all, or, only in reverse?
Do you have a LEXIA or just an OBDII scanner?
If you have a LEXIA can you check the oil pressure in forward and reverse?

[Coney]

- "Are you saying that there is no power at all, or, only in reverse?"

Only in reverse. (Forward is same as ever).

- "Do you have a LEXIA or just an OBDII scanner?"

Yes. A Lexia 7.57.

- If you have a LEXIA can you check the oil pressure in forward and reverse?

I measured the pressure in reverse with idling engine. It's 4 bar while it should be 2.5 to 3 bar and the modulating solenoid valve is on 80%.

In "Drive" the pressure is 2.95 bar and the modulating solenoid valve is on 88.8%.

*** REVERSE ***



*** DRIVE ***



I just tripped over the fact that the sequential valves are not at all involved in reverse, which makes sense, since there is no up or downshifting, so if any valve is the cause, it can only be one of the modulating ones or the manual valve.



Well, not sure about 5 and 6. Appears, they should be in the same state but are in opposite states.

I can, however, feel reverse popping in by that discrete jerk and a that change in sound frequency.

[ozvtr]

I measured the pressure in reverse with idling engine. It's 4 bar while it should be 2.5 to 3 bar and the modulating solenoid valve is on 80%.

No, the spec is 4 bar (in reverse) and the PWM value lines up, so that's ok.

I can, however, feel reverse popping in by that discrete jerk and a that change in sound frequency.

If you jack the front wheels off the ground, do they spin in reverse?

Only No5 should be active in reverse. 3 and 4 active indicates it's in 1st!!??? I have no explanation for this.

In reverse none of the electro valves are (should be) active except No5. No5 activates the F2 brake.

[Coney]

I think, I have an explanation. That wasn't captured in reverse. I expect it was actually in P.

I repeated that test in reverse and I saw valve 5 being activated for approx. 2 seconds, then came the jerk, the sound of reverse, and valve 5 was deactivated.

3 was active in P and in N;

3, 4, and 5 were active in D.

That should all be correct.



When going from P to R to D, the oil pressure did not change.


I jacked her up and ran her in R.

Simply said, it looks like a slipping clutch.

Maybe I can insert the amazing footage here.

https://praxisarzt.de/images/c5_repair/ ... jacked.mp4



else paste this in your browser -->https://praxisarzt.de/images/c5_repair/ ... jacked.mp4

[Link seems to work, It did for me. ]