Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

[CitroJim]

Awesome Zel That's very proper

[Zelandeth]

I absolutely did not set out this week to buy a car.

However this popped up on another forum at a really good price, being sold by someone whose workmanship and attention to detail I rate extremely highly. In the last few weeks they have given the braking system a thorough going over including installation of a new servo and master cylinder, some bug fixing on both fuelling and ignition systems and fitment of a full new set of tyres.

The P4 is a car which I think I'd have just passed by without a second thought a few years ago, but the whole well thought out, well engineered proper old school classic just really appeals to me now.

The P4 seems to be really undervalued compared to a lot of classic cars. How can this be worth less than a Morris Minor?











There's an interesting little mini-project in here too.



This is the original valve based radio, which currently doesn't work. Or isn't connected. Or both. However I'm no stranger to reviving valve based technology, so sure we'll get this up and running again soon.

This currently isn't working either.



Though like the radio I don't even know if it's currently receiving power. Haven't had a chance to even think about looking at either of these yet and won't for a while. On the list though.

Some work does need to be done as a matter of urgency though. First up is having installed something which is currently totally absent: Seatbelts! Currently it has none...which is slightly unnerving, never mind with the standard of driving I see on a daily basis. Helpfully there's a company over in High Wycombe that specialises in period looking installs on cars like this, so they'll be getting some business from me pretty much as soon as we're back from the trip in a week and a bit.

Secondly is going to be installation of a new set of coolant hoses (which are in the boot), as the old ones are quite perished. Then a new radiator cap as the current one has basically no seal left. Not doing that until the hoses are done though for obvious reasons! I'll be checking on the thermostat while doing that job as the car according to the gauge runs quite cool.

Something I wasn't expecting from this on the move was the very classic Jaguar-esque howl at higher revs when accelerating. Nor was I expecting it to be quite so long legged. Normal modern cruising speeds on the motorway are entirely doable without any real stress. Hoping replacing the knackered door seals will at least slight reduce the currently biblical levels of wind noise though!

Definitely could say more, but it's going to have to wait till tomorrow as sleep is currently a high priority as I'm absolutely knackered.

Hoping tomorrow I might get a chance to actually drive the car in not pouring rain tomorrow...being able to see where I'm going would be nice. Oh...seeing what's behind me would be nice too. The wing mirrors adapted the most aerodynamically advantageous position within about 90 seconds of joining the motorway this afternoon. Not that you can really see the nearside one over the bonnet anyway...

[CitroJim]

Loving it Zel!

Looking forward to future updates

[Zelandeth]

Was out yesterday for the first time in decent weather. Car has done its first errand run in the family, a dog food run to cover while we're away.



Has to be said it was far more pleasant driving it when I could actually see where I was going!

I've driven a fair few cars from the 50s/60s before, but picking this up was my first drive in a P4. Pleasantly surprised with the whole driving experience.

While it's not up there with a hydraulic Citroen, the suspension does an astonishingly good job of absorbing some pretty horrendous road surfaces. I know Brickhill road between the A5 and Bow Brickhill train station is utterly knackered, yet she ironed that out out pretty much without any fuss at all.

Also really does go surprisingly well once wound up to speed. It's really not a car that at a glance you would expect to see cruising comfortably down the road at motorway speeds is it?

You don't so much drive it as "proceed" as it was described by someone on another forum. Particularly pulling away from junctions etc you don't so much accelerate as move off. You can't rush it, and there really is no point in trying. First and second gear are extremely low, and the gearchange requires a good count of one between gears. No synchro on first either as was pretty standard for the period.

For all it's quite a simply styled car at a glance there are quite a lot of little touches here and there. One which is more obvious than most is that this was very much when cars still had real emblems rather than just little plastic badges.



Question for those who know Rover's history better than me: Did our Viking friend here have a name?

Nice touch which would have taken me a while to spot if someone hadn't told me about it is this little wooden panel below the dash.



Which hides this.



With a surprising amount of the original tools still there given it's been 60 years.

Another interior detail I quite like is the gear linkage arrangement. They could have hidden this all behind a rubber or leather gaiter. However they decided instead to chrome plate it and leave it on show.



Similarly chrome plated is the handbrake, the style of which does rather give the game away as to this being quite an old design.



Interior details which are somewhat less pleasing when you're driving the car for the first time are the heating and ventilation controls which clearly predate the levels of research into ergonomics we became used to...this lot takes a little figuring out. Not too bad, but not something you want to be trying to decipher while driving the car for the first time!



I have ascertained that the "screen" control is indeed not attached to a cable, so I'll need to attend to that sooner than later - or at least see if I can manually open and secure open the associated flaps so we have slightly more airflow to the windscreen.

Some rather nice engineering under here too.



One might say over-engineered in some areas. This intake setup is a little over the top...



Some slightly unusual engineering too, especially compared to modern designs.



Note the two valve covers...one on the top and one on the side of the engine. This is an Inlet-Over-Exhaust engine - the inlet valves are in the head as with any (relatively) modern OHV setup, yet the exhaust valves are on the block as they would be on any older side valve engine.

I need to do some more reading on the history and how long this was used for. It's a design I knew existed but had never really looked closely at until today. Never even consciously realised this was an IOE setup until I looked more closely under the bonnet yesterday.

It was good to see that the run over here didn't result in any oil or water being used. Had no real reason to expect any usage but still nice to see.

Fuel usage came out at approximately 19mpg, though I didn't note the exact starting mileage and I'm not convinced when I fuelled up before we started out that the pump didn't click off a bit early as when I fuelled up yesterday the gauge went visibly higher. Not expecting miracles out of this, but if we could hover at least around the 20mpg mark it would be nice.

Something I do need to replace ASAP are the coolant hoses (a full set came with the car) as they are quite crispy.



Think I may need some new door seals too as the rubber in those doesn't seem to have fared any better.



Yeah, those have seen better days. Or indeed are entirely missing as with the driver's door one. Thankfully replacement seals of the correct profile are readily (albeit not particularly cheaply) available, and have been ordered.

Still really happy with the car - just wish I hadn't not had to leave it for a week and a half!

[MattBLancs]

That's a lovely thing!

Inlet over exhaust is a weird idea, my understanding is side valve persisted a long while as it was cheap - machining for valves, guides etc all done in the block and "cylinder head" become not much more than a plate with spark plug holes in it (and perhaps cooling passages) hence cheaper.

Inlet over exhaust looses that production advantage but retains the disadvantage of exhaust valves off to one side of where the action is etc. Very odd.

I think this straight six is closely related to the four cylinder petrol (1.6 capacity?) That was used in the series one Land Rovers. I'm sure I read somewhere that the land rover engine is quite tunable and possible to double it's original stated power, so 50% more cylinders and capacity perhaps you have a potential "sleeper" on your hands! definitely conveys an air of "dignified progress" you'd never picture it being swift!

Does the engine bay "silencer" house an air filter (oil gauze type thing?) Or is it purely to silence any unruly induction noises?

I think I'd have an involuntary reflex to give that top hose a squeeze, am pretty sure it would guarantee hose replacement was next thing I needed to do... Looks positively brittle.

Final thought - think I have a matching oil/grease gun to the one in your tool kit

Mine came with my lathe rather than an old Rover:)

[myglaren]

I have (had) a similar grease gun that was my dad's. Haven't seen it for years and think I may have left it at work.

[Hell Razor5543]

Is that an ash tray next to the tool tray?

[bobins]

The Rover IOE engine.....

"Rover used a more advanced form of IOE engine. It was designed by Jack Swaine in the mid-late 1940s and was in production from 1948 to the early 1990s. Unlike the conventional F-head IOE, this had an efficient combustion chamber designed for good combustion, rather than simple manufacture. The top surface of the block was machined at an angle, with the piston crowns angled in a "pitched roof" to match. At TDC, the piston almost touched the angled inlet valve and provided good 'squish' to the combustion chamber itself, offset to the side by half a cylinder diameter. The resultant combustion chamber shape was a near-ideal hemisphere, although inverted and tilted from the usual "hemi-head" design. The spark plug was centrally mounted and this, together with the turbulence generated by the squish, provided a short flame path. The thinness of the gas layer between piston and inlet valve was so confined as to reduce the risk of detonation on poor fuel, one factor that kept it in service with Land Rover for so long. During the late 1940s and early 1950s when the only petrol available was low octane 'pool' petrol it also allowed Rover to run higher compression ratios than many competitors with the more usual side- or overhead valve designs."

More detail at...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOE_engin ... OE_engines

[bobins]

What's the vacant space on the right for ? An oil gun - similar to a grease gun... only for oil ? A proper wooden handled screwdriver ?

[Gibbo2286]

I've still got one of those grease guns.

[bobins]

It would appear that the grease gun isn't original. There should be a couple of box spanners in its place.



Courtesy: https://www.roverp4dg.org.uk/index.php/ ... tool-trays

[MattBLancs]

Is that not a slightly different (no black plastic end cap) grease gun facing into the box spanner, business end of gun therefore hidden from view?

[bobins]

If you click on the link where the image came from you can see 4 variants of the tool tray, and at least one of them appears to have 2 box spanners nesting together.

[bobins]

A better picture from one up for auction last month. https://auctions.manorparkclassics.com/ ... /?lot=1233

Note for Zel - I have a screwdriver the same as the one in this photo apart from it has a red band rather than a yellow band. It's yours if you want it, though the purists might argue it's not correct It's a 'Stanley' brand one. I also think I might have a pair of the pliers somewhere, but they're currently unfindable in my shed of delights

[Zelandeth]

A better picture from one up for auction last month. https://auctions.manorparkclassics.com/ ... /?lot=1233

Note for Zel - I have a screwdriver the same as the one in this photo apart from it has a red band rather than a yellow band. It's yours if you want it, though the purists might argue it's not correct It's a 'Stanley' brand one. I also think I might have a pair of the pliers somewhere, but they're currently unfindable in my shed of delights

Certainly wouldn't say no to getting the right screwdriver back in the toolbox. Wouldn't surprise me if I had a very similar pair of pliers floating around somewhere. Currently 3000 plus miles away from the garage though so can't exactly go rummaging.

Interesting setup Rover went with on this engine, definitely a bit unusual when you look at a cross section. A neat solution to getting bigger valves into an engine with a small bore though.

Have been reading through the P4 Driver's Guild technical tips book in the snippets of downtime here and have learned a fair bit already. The fact the kingpin swivels are hollow and oil filed and that they need regular top ups being probably one of the most important so far.

Interesting seeing period articles discussing the merits of removing half the blades from the cooling fan... don't think with modern traffic levels and modern fuels we'll be doing that.

The only real modifications I can see in the near future are the addition of seatbelts, and potentially a solid state regulator for the generator if this one looks to be out of adjustment at all (I seem to recall the previous owner seeing it was overcharging a little) given they're pretty much fit and forget upgrades. Of course would need to keep in mind wiring up any new regulator that this car is still set up as positive ground.