Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

xantia_v6 wrote: 04 Apr 2023, 21:44 If you need photos of the original T1200 ancillaries (bag, manuals, disks) let me know.
That would be great. I don't actually have any of the original documents etc, though I do believe I have one of the original cases now.

I'm sure there is a PDF of the manual out there somewhere, I've never really gone looking for it yet though.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

Oh gosh, Sorry to hear its got you a second time Zel :evil: I wish you a very quick and full recovery :)
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by mickthemaverick »

I don't know if this is of interest to you Zel? I would be happy to collect it for you as I will be going there myself! :)

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... da010ed41f
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

mickthemaverick wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 12:06 I don't know if this is of interest to you Zel? I would be happy to collect it for you as I will be going there myself! :)

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... da010ed41f
Got to be worth sticking £50 or thereabouts on, but I suspect it will go for way more than that (£200+ wouldn't surprise me) - and I really don't NEED a second A1200. Well, would actually be second-and-a-half as there's most of one in the loft which has donated various parts to my main one over the years. If it's an oddball item in the catalogue though you never know. The absolutely mental prices they seem to go for on eBay these days makes me increasingly glad that I never sold mine, even though I did consider it a couple of times a long while ago.

Established that the T1200 is not in fact going to be the next item on the website for the simple fact that I'd forgotten quite how filthy it is. I was quite skeptical of the odds of the rebuilt PSU board I threw into it actually working (keeping in mind I think this was attempt six or seven by that point to find one that wasn't rotten beyond saving or blown up) so I never bothered cleaning the case while I had it apart. It really wants to be fully stripped down and thoroughly cleaned though before I go anywhere near it with a camera. Or transplant it into the case of one of the parts donors which is far cleaner and whiter than this one...Not too bothered about doing that, let's face it I've had so many of them apart by this point that I can pretty much strip down and rebuild a Toshiba T1200 with my eyes closed.

That's a job for tomorrow me though. I'll see about picking another victim from the lineup to be subject to my aimless ramblings after dinner.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Last time it was run, the T3200SXC was showing signs of power supply issues. Not surprising really...so let's dig into it and find what we're dealing with.

After uttering some quite spicy curses at sneaky designers at Toshiba anyway. It took me a good 15 minutes of struggling with the top cover before I tracked down the last two screws.

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See it yet?

How about now?

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First one I've one across with a screw down from the top at the rear.

It's never a good sign when you find the goo before you've even opened the unit.

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Yeah, there's been a bit of leakage going on here.

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These four look to be the main culprits.

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At least nothing looks too crust...oh.

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You see all that black stuff? Yeah, that shouldn't be there. That should be shiny and green. That is where the capacitor electrolyte has got underneath the solder mask and started to corrode the traces. On the plus side, while that looks quite spectacular, it's a single sided board with quite chunky traces, and the few areas I spectulatively scraped at it a bit revealed copper to still exist under the gunk...so I think it's saveable.

It spent a good portion of the afternoon taking a swim in some IPA.

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This one is going to take quite a bit of cleaning as there's just so, so much slime everywhere and all over everything. Given this has mains on one side of it, I need to be absolutely sure I've got all of it.

Hoping it can be saved though as the rest of this machine is - unlike the vast majority of mine - otherwise near factory fresh. Seriously, I haven't even needed to vacuum the keyboard on this one. Hopefully with every cap in the PSU and display replaced it will come back to life.

One clean motherboard.

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I'd wanted to strip it down so I could see the whole board to make sure there had been no seepage down onto the board from the PSU. Thankfully as it's always been stored with the power supply end down, that wasn't an issue.

So drive assembly went back in after giving the hard disk a test run. Being an old Conner (CP30104) unsurprisingly it sprang to life quite happily - despite sounding like the bearings are made of gravel. They're just like that! I've generally found these old 80s to early 90s Conner drives unless they've got wet to be supremely reliable. Think I've only ever had one or two fail - and those have been DOA. If they work, they just keep going. They sound like absolute hell - especially the single platter ones - but usually just do their thing.

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Looks like this one has been fully maxed out in the memory department, which is always nice to see.

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Though this one is never going to be a speed demon.

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Oh dear, yes that is indeed an 80386SX, in 20MHz flavour here. For those of you not familiar with the 386SX, it's...well a bit pointless. While at its core it is a 32-bit chip, it only has a 16-bit address bus. This brings with it an obvious huge performance impact as it halves the rate at which you can get data into or out of the chip. It's actually worse than that though, as you have to waste at least a couple of clock cycles switching address banks. So it's even slower... I'm going to be really curious to do some tests to see how it actually compares performance wise to the 286 in the base T3200 - my guess is far, far less than you'd think.

In other news, a package for the Renault arrived this afternoon.

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Looking forward to getting that installed.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by mickthemaverick »

No luck with the Amiga I'm afraid Zel, it went for £180 !! :)
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

mickthemaverick wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 17:41 No luck with the Amiga I'm afraid Zel, it went for £180 !! :)
Not massively surprised, I wouldn't have been at all surprised if it went over £200 to be honest these days.

----



Today's fun and games continued in my rehabilitation home for ancient technology. The T3200SXC is awaiting parts, which hopefully will arrive over the weekend to allow me to (hopefully) repair the power supply. My original plan had been maybe to get the T1200 photographed for the website. Right up to the point at which I realised quite how grubby it was.

I never took the opportunity to clean it properly before as I was highly skeptical that the repaired power supply board was ever going to work - keeping in mind I think I was on power supply number seven by that point. Then it's always been in pretty regular use so the opportunity had never really come up. However, it definitely needed sorted before I took a bunch of photos effectively putting it on show.

So today I stripped the whole thing down to pretty much to its component parts for a really good clean.

On the plus side, I've taken apart and rebuilt so many Toshiba T1200s by now I can do it in about ten minutes with my eyes closed! Which given how many brain cells I still seemed to be missing this afternoon was a good thing. Was it worth a few hours work? Well I'll let you make the decision.

Have some before and after photos.

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Actually was quite a bit more organic disgustingness engrained around the latches than it looks in that photo.

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Quite a bit of gunge in the seam between the case halves and around the controls, embossed lettering etc.

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Not any more there isn't.

I'd tried several times by hand to get all the crud out of these grooves on the back of the display and from around the badge.

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There was exactly as much fluff and grime in around the hinge as you'd expect after 33 years too. Much better now.

All in all I'd say that didn't scrub up half bad for a computer made in 1990 (which is surprising late for a T1200, the model was launched in early 1988 - imagine a *single* laptop model now lasting a full two years unchanged!) if I do say so myself. Someone once told me it wasn't possible to detail a computer like a car. I beg to differ. Just takes a different set of skills and tools.

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Now feel it's ready for its photoshoot.

Here is a shot from during the reassembly process...not maybe for those who find the sight of electronics unnerving!

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Oh, and the 9.54MHz powerhouse that runs the show.

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Literally the only thing left attached to any of the case was the display cable as I didn't fancy taking the whole hinge apart to remove it.

Reckon it probably took me a couple of hours, and that was taking my time as I knew I wasn't running close to on all cylinders mentally today. Sort of job I quite enjoy. Pretty low stress on this one too as I know the process so well.

Glad to report that the system is indeed working quite happily despite it having been in bits earlier today.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by xantia_v6 »

Here are some quick pictures of mine with its ancillaries. Feel free to use them if you want.

Sorry, I did not spend a lot of time cleaning it, it is in the condition from when it was put away in 1998. I did open the case last year and checked that nothing has leaked, but will not plug it in until some recapping is done.

Can you name the 7 built in interfaces?
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

I'm delighted you are preserving these Zel :D You have the makings of a good museum there ;)
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

CitroJim wrote: 07 Apr 2023, 05:41 I'm delighted you are preserving these Zel :D You have the makings of a good museum there ;)
I'm just glad I've had a bit of a kick recently to actually start doing something with them again.

The page for the T1200 is mostly done now. Had a bit of an amusing moment this evening which made me question my sanity somewhat.

I decided looking at one of my photos...

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...That it would be helpful for readers to produce an annotated version.

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I might do another pass graphically as it's a bit cramped on the left hand side, but that's the quick bit.

This took several hours of looking up part numbers, not being able to find some, reverse engineering a bit, and just generally figuring things out.

Shortly after I'd finished I had a sudden moment of "Wait a second..." Cue me grabbing the service manual. Yep...there's a complete board diagram showing everything in there isn't there! *Bashes head against desk a few times.*

On the plus side, aside from having worded a few things differently, nothing was actually wrong. The way I see it as well I'll have absorbed a lot more of the information than I would have just copying things from the manual. As if absorbing information about the architecture of a system board from 1987 is actually useful...well I guess it is if you're me.

I'd actually quite like to annotated too down photos like that for most of the older systems now I've done one. It's pretty pointless for anything made after the early 90s as so much started to get integrated into single big chips, but on older machines like this where everything is more or less discreet I think it makes a lot of sense.

I also started looking slightly more deeply at the hard disk interface...and discovered that was a bit of a rabbit hole. It's actually kinda fascinating.

This dates back to around 1986...most hard drives were half or full height 5.25" ST-506 drives. 3.5" drives weren't massively common by then, and IDE drives were still very new.

The ST-506 interface isn't exactly well suited to a compact format though...the interface connectors are nearly as wide as a 3.5" drive just by themselves...plus you don't really want to have to dedicate a whole ISA slot to the interface card. So JVC decided to come up with their own solution...the result being this oddball solution which combines both data and power onto a single 26-pin ribbon cable.

The interface is very ST-506-esque, but not quite. The differential pairs used for signalling on the ST-506 standard have been ousted with direct TTL level communication, and several other functions have been added. Including the ability to command the spindle motor to start or stop, a specific line to instruct the head to park, useful sorts of things to have on a drive optimised for mobile use.

The drive itself is a little odd as well...I'm used to ST-506 drives almost universally running at 3600rpm - as at 17 sectors per track, that gave you the 500kbit/second data rate.

This drive runs at 2600rpm...which is a really strange spindle speed. I've never come across one running at that speed before. The documentation showing this seems to be backed up by my actual testing on the machine.

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Just quite an unusual setup. Well...it was physically unusual as well, being exactly the same size as a modern 3.5" drive - *including* a protective cage and rubber shock absorbing mounts.

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It also has heads which automatically park after a few seconds of inactivity rather than requiring to be manually parked like most drives of the time. I hadn't really thought much about it until today, but this little thing was really quite an impressive bit of kit for its day. Well done JVC.

Might need to do a bit more digging one day and maybe put a bit of a background page up on the technical details of that aspect of the machine. Just find it quite intriguing to see JVC coming up with such a different solution when the rest of the world were going down the road of IDE, or of course SCSI.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

Excellent! I remember well those self-parking hard disks Zel, they made a very distinctive sound when they did :)

Some incredible memories coming back!
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

CitroJim wrote: 09 Apr 2023, 05:40 Excellent! I remember well those self-parking hard disks Zel, they made a very distinctive sound when they did :)

Some incredible memories coming back!
Those JVC drives do make some very distinctive noises in use. The noise the spindle motor makes when starting or stopping though goes beyond distinctive into the realms of slightly ridiculous I think.

Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by mickthemaverick »

That brought back some memories Zel!! Nice one :)
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

That hard disk sector test also brought back memories... We once had a system that ran that at every boot... Mainly because the system used removable hard disks in cradles and were susceptible to damage through mishandling.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Here's another probably quite familiar noise then...



Sorry, didn't have time to set the camera up properly for this.

The subject making all manner of strange squeaking noises here...

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I actually had been meaning to run this back up for a little while as I wasn't totally sure I'd properly parked the heads last time I used it and it was bugging me. So when I had to move the box today that seemed a good time.

Which I really do need to get a period appropriate PC for at some point. The 386 it's in there is a good five years or so too new for it really.

Sadly my budget has never quite stretched to an original IBM PC-XT or similar so far.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.