Bargain Basement Motoring

[NewcastleFalcon]

If you go through the drop-down list you will see that the start (momentary) has the words "Engine Start".

Apologies. Yes I posted, before realising the engine start was the third pic, and missed interim posts where you pointed that out

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

A serious option

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384395575537 ... R5rXss2YYQ

[bobins]

Go old-tech and never have a problem again. A few turns of the starter rope around the crank pulley and a little heave-ho and she'll be golden

Pull to start

[CitroJim]

This is the simplest starter circuit you can use. The solenoid will only ever be energised while you hold the button in. Any failsafe Normally Closed contacts can be added into the relay operation line which will break this circuit when the failsafe relay, operated maybe from oil pressure sensor as Jim suggested, operates. Just a starting point!!

That'll do a treat Mick

[CitroJim]

Go old-tech and never have a problem again. A few turns of the starter rope around the crank pulley and a little heave-ho and she'll be golden

And never any worries about a flat battery with one of those!

[NewcastleFalcon]

This is the simplest starter circuit you can use. The solenoid will only ever be energised while you hold the button in. Any failsafe Normally Closed contacts can be added into the relay operation line which will break this circuit when the failsafe relay, operated maybe from oil pressure sensor as Jim suggested, operates. Just a starting point!!

Thanks Mick. When the time comes I think I will need a bit of spoon feeding. Its bad enough going push button starter shopping, never mind metaphorically going into the "relay shop" and attempting to get the specified relays.

This was my simplistic view of the starter button circuit design...could be absolutely ludicrous so a once over from a trained eye would be welcome. If it is sound it would require the ignition key to be in the "On" position to start the car. All the downstream shenanigans as it enters the "white box" (The Intelligent Power Distribution Module) would be preserved.

click and it gets bigger

The bottom of a likely button looks like this, I presume the white wire attaches to the vacant terminal and is activated when the button is pressed as it would have been with the ignition key in the "Start" position. Everything else remains the same.

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Having seen your start diagram it is clear that the existing start switch disconnects the feed to the ON position when you turn it to start. So while your placement of the white wire appears to be correct, to replicate the exact conditions of key starting you will need to leave the key in the off position when starting as the other circuits within the engine management must be powered from a different source. So I would say the procedure would be:
1 Turn the key to ON position to bring up the usual dash indicators
2 Press the start button while simultaneously switching OFF the key
3 As you release the button turn the key to ON.

I am not convinced that that will work easily so a better solution would be to use a changeover button with the common connected to the power, the normally closed side to the ignition key feed replacing its existing feed, and the normally open side to the white wire to the starter module. I'll put up a diagram based on yours in a bit!!

In order to check the white wire on the button could you post a larger pic of the bottom left hand image in the set of 8 images of the starter button?

[mickthemaverick]

This shows the wiring to wire in a changeover button starter. This would mean you simply turn on the ignition and press the starter and it would work as the key did.

Own work

[NewcastleFalcon]

In the "On" position the following circuits are activated, and the key remains in the "On" position without changing.

The start switch only switches off the accessories, and the the heater blower.

The expanded diagram can be found on this listing here for the starter button Mick

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jtron%C2%AE-Ig ... 5636&psc=1

Thanks for giving it the once over.

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

So It looks like power is maintained to the red wire when the switch is in the starter position so that feed would have to be maintained, thinking about that!! Back in a bit!!

[myglaren]

Needs Arduinos/Raspberry Pies.

[NewcastleFalcon]

So It looks like power is maintained to the red wire when the switch is in the starter position so that feed would have to be maintained, thinking about that!! Back in a bit!!

Your post just came in mick while I was doing this ...I'll post it anyway but thanks for your new thoughts following the additional info. Heading out now so be back tea-time ish!

This shows the wiring to wire in a changeover button starter. This would mean you simply turn on the ignition and press the starter and it would work as the key did.

I probably misinterpret the diagram Mick but does that not break into the power before the ignition switch, so when the push button is operated, the ignition switch is switch is unpowered even with the key at the "ON" position, and hence the "red wire" circuits needed for a start are not powered when the button is pressed.

Removing the white wire entirely from the starter switch and providing separate power to the push button starter from using the cigar lighter wiring, would leave the ignition/ accessories/and heater blower on with the key in the "on" position, and send the signal down the white wire on pushing the button...into the IPDM and onwards to the solenoid and start the car.

This cut out version of the schematic for the ignition switch may give a bit more info.

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

One solution may be to go for something like this:

BFTW

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292002636518 ... R7iM-oeZYQ

Then you would connect the blue wire to the power common, the red wire to the ignition switch, the white wire to the starter button and the yellow and brown wires to the second toggle switch!

It would work, eliminate the key entirely and look a bit cool!!

[mickthemaverick]

Removing the white wire entirely from the starter switch and providing separate power to the push button starter from using the cigar lighter wiring, would leave the ignition/ accessories/and heater blower on with the key in the "on" position, and send the signal down the white wire on pushing the button...into the IPDM and onwards to the solenoid and start the car.

Regards Neil

Yes that would work but the blower and accesories are cut off to allow maximum power available for the starter motor. If they are still powered then you may not have enough umph in the battery due to cold or just ageing to start the car, I would definitely advise a way of replicating the key's method such as the option above or a double pole starter button allowing one pole to connect the white wire and the other one the red.

[CitroJim]

You're doing a cracking job for Neil there Mick

Yes that would work but the blower and accesories are cut off to allow maximum power available for the starter motor. If they are still powered then you may not have enough umph in the battery due to cold or just ageing to start the car, I would definitely advise a way of replicating the key's method such as the option above or a double pole starter button allowing one pole to connect the white wire and the other one the red.

I fully agree... In the absence of a suitable changeover starter button it can be done with relays...

As it's just your car Neil and I presume you're the only driver of it and you know and understand all this, you can fairly reliably 'get away' with it by remembering to make sure all the high consumption stuff is switched off before going for a start...

The only remaining risk is if any of the car electronics is sensitive to the voltage sag whilst the starter motor is running such as the case of the MK2 Xantia tacho needle wrapping itself around it its end-stop if trying to start with a very low battery.

Keep up the good work Mick