Stellantis

[NewcastleFalcon]

"of (he/it that) brightens with stars"
....really?

One of those "designed by a committee" names

In other words from 16th January 2021

Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Citroën, Dodge, DS, Fiat, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Opel, Peugeot, Ram, Vauxhall

Regards Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

They have a logo, and I recognise this pass

https://www.stellantis.com/en

Regards Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Complete lack of interest from the FCF faithful so far. The overall company is registered in the Netherlands, presumably for some sort of "neutrality" compromise. It also was listed on the Milan, Paris, and New York Stock Exchanges.

So whats the purpose of the merger lets have a speculate

Number 1 Cost cutting, or as they like to call it synergies.
Number 2 Unless they want to go on endlessly competing with other marques in the group with very similar cars, a lot of models are going to bite the dust.
Number 3 Some of the Marques may well bite the dust......and my bets are that Peugeot and Citroen will not be one of them even if they need to be. Too much history in the way.

They say that Stellantis will just be the overall corporate entity, but if they are not to be an organisation hidebound by the past and supposed goodwill of the marques in their little historic areas, it might have been as well to become a new brand entirely, and proudly clag their name on their products, and really get some synergies by making a much reduced stable of vehicles.

As with all traditional automakers, very soon if not now they are having to deal with stranded assets of the ICE variety, research/development/design/production lines/supply chains and factories. On the other side you have the likes of TESLA, none of those legacy millstones, and on an upward development curve increasing capacity for their product.

REgards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

I have not researched this at all but the first thing I noted is that Stellantis is the 4th biggest manufacturer. Now I have Ford, VAG, Toyota and a question mark for the 3 above them. My first thought was GM but seeing as they have devolved largely into the new company I think not, Tesla? maybe I suppose depending on the definition of 'largest'. But I suspect it is a Chinese company which I cannot name TOH so that leaves the above three to pick up the other two places above Stellantis.

As regards the actual company I just view it as a potential loss of more of the motor industry's diversity which will inevitably result in us all driving the same shaped pod with transport fixings powered by something from Krypton!!!

[bobins]

Reading the marketing BS on their Group Overview page https://www.stellantis.com/en/group/overview not once do they mention the word 'car' . Apparently they do provide 'mobility solutions', but that's not a lot of use to me as I want a CAR.

[NewcastleFalcon]

I have not researched this at all but the first thing I noted is that Stellantis is the 4th biggest manufacturer. Now I have Ford, VAG, Toyota ...

Toyota, VAG, Renault-Nissan are the top 3. On other measures....stock market value, TESLA are bigger than Ford and GM and Fiat Chrysler put together, at the time of writing of this article back in 2020.


https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/02/ ... ler-c.aspx

Another EV only company NIO which not many will have heard of are also in terms of Stock market value bigger than Ford and GM put together.

Spoiler: show

If you don't follow the electric vehicle threads on here with a fine tooth comb, you will never have heard of NIO. The Shanghai company’s market capitalization now stands at $104 billion, bigger than the combined value of traditional automakers General Motors Co. and Ford Motor Co.

You will most likely never have heard of William Li Bin the CEO of NIO,

Nio at Record High After Unveiling New Sedan, Battery Pack

They aren't playing in the car for the masses market, but very much in the well-heeled end of the market and are quite happy to tread on TESLA's toes.

Regards Neil

Evidence really that investors are backing/speculating on Companies they feel will perform best in the transition to electric vehicles. Don't think I am that convinced by Stellantis path ahead. The group make 8 million cars currently, I see the synergies reducing this number.

Regards Neil

[white exec]

Some more detail here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellantis

[NewcastleFalcon]

The French State still have a stake Stellantis

Watered down from their PSA stake but still 6.2%

The French government, which is currently one of PSA's largest shareholders, will hold a 6.2 percent stake in Stellantis through the public bank Bpifrance once the merger is completed.

Regards Neil

[Gibbo2286]

It's all about money and where to earn it.

I don't usually use Tetley Tea bags but had some in a Christmas parcel, turned the bag over as I dumped in the bin noted it is owned by TATA, maybe we'll have Jaguar/LandRover tea next or Tetley steel.

[myglaren]

Probably a Linux type cryptic name - Tetley Are TAta.

Don't they put the Rust in Range Rovers too?

[NewcastleFalcon]

So what does Stellantis mean for Vauxhall and its manufacturing plants in the UK.

Carlos Tavares the CEO of Stellantis is anything but inspiring in this regard. Nice traditional Automaker hat he wears...can't do this unless, can't do this because. Meanwhile Tesla build factories in less than a year, and churn out hundreds of thousands of cars a year, and aim for production of 20 Million Electric Cars/year by 2030.

All too fast for unambitious negative Carlos...far as Vauxhall are concerned

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... uk-factory

Carlos Tavares said that the future of its Ellesmere Port plant depended on the support the UK government was prepared to offer after its decision to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars after 2030.

"If you change, brutally, the rules and if you restrict the rules for business then there is at one point in time a problem," he said.

Looking forward, he said it would make more sense to locate an electric vehicle factory closer to the larger EU market.

Right now the only 100% BEV car with a Vauxhall badge on it, doesn't roll off the production line at Ellesmere Port but at Zaragoza in Spain. It shares the same base as the Peugeot 208, and is very similar to the Peugeot 208.
What's the likelihood of an Ellesmere Port being turned into a factory producing Vauxhall badged EV's under Stellantis ownership?

Listening to Tavares words....less than zero. Slow decline or sell the marque entirely would be my guess.

Maybe there will not be long to wait if the last paragraph of the Autocar report comes to pass

"“We are now deciding on where we are going to put those investments, and we don't forget we have a strong asset in Vauxhall, which is warm to the hearts of UK consumers. We haven't made a decision yet, but we will make a decision within the next few weeks.”

Who knows? You can see the massive publicity benefit for UK plc of some kind of commitment to follow on from that made by Nissan. Tavares knows this, and may just be playing hard ball to see what he can get to commit to Vauxhall in the UK.

Regards Neil

[Gibbo2286]

I think Tesla will crash and burn like the Dutch tulip industry sooner or later, the investors are dreamers and when they wake up they'll walk away with all that's left their money.

This might explain some of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraord ... of_Crowds

[NewcastleFalcon]

I think Tesla will crash and burn like the Dutch tulip industry sooner or later, the investors are dreamers and when they wake up they'll walk away with all that's left their money.

This might explain some of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraord ... of_Crowds

You may be right Gibbo but I hope they don't. TESLA may have had a few problems with stock market speculators, particularly those betting on their failure, but they do have a big commercial advantage at the moment. They are the world's largest electric car maker and they only make electric cars. Like it or not most of the world is on a path to phase out burning petrol and diesel in cars. Every other major car maker has the disruption of making the transition, and carrying the cost burden of the change.

Tavares in many ways is in a difficult position. Currently fourth biggest carmaker in the world, but with a portfolio of over a dozen different marques with one thing in common, all with a traditional ICE basis, existing factories set up to make the "wrong" thing, and strong political and national ties to make blank sheet of paper best solutions difficult to implement.

Market share will inevitably decline for ICE vehicles, and the overall new car market likely to shrink as well. So as well as Tavares attempting to grab a share for Stellantis in the electric car market, inevitable he will have to manage decline in what all his acquired factories are set up to do now.

He will do a very good job if he manages to pull that one off. Mean while Musk has none of those concerns.

At the moment I'd say TESLA was a strong favourite at the start of the race.

REgards Neil

[white exec]

You could be right, Neil. The big four/five/six all have a lot of baggage, in the way of ICE plant, and only some of that will be able to continue in the truck/bus market, and the days of that are limited.

Oddly, Honda - I think they have more actual engines installed worldwide (it includes generators, mowers, pumps...) - could be insulated somewhat from the decline of ICE cars, simply because their presence is much more limited, and the demand for their 'remote' small engines will continue for a good while yet.

[Gibbo2286]

My comment was about Tesla as a company, the cars will continue to be built but when the crash comes the owners of the existing car companies or oil producers will pick up the pieces.