Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

[andyhugill]

Any guidance please,

2008 C5 X7, 2.0 HDI Estate. Wipers have been mis behaving for a while. Firstly stuck on intermediate on whichever setting then they folded over each other and left stopped working with right jerking up about 4" then back down again. I've read that it's probably the ECU in the slave, left side. I have removed the motors and panel to get to the ecu and put the multi meter across each terminal pin and the connection to the PCB and there seemed to be lack on continuity. Tried to remove the PCB but to no avail, rechecked continuity and it seemed okay after messing about but when i refitted the motors they still don't work.

Are new motors required as the few there are about seem expensive and i may need two. Or is it worth trying to get them looked at by an auto electrician.

Does anybody have any experience with this.....PLease

Andy

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes - had to have the whole thing replaced - they are a complete unit. An ECU on each wiper unit with Master and slave relationship - so the faulty wiper may not necessarily be the one that needs replacing.

See these posts:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54676&hilit=slave+ecu#p483220
https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 15#p464255

Current prices for Right Hand Drive replacements are:

Part 6405LE (Left side / UK Passenger side)
Part 6405LA (Right side / UK Driver side)

They are the same price £300.77 each inclusive of VAT.

Mine got progressively worse and then would get stuck then work - I didn't hang about as it was quite dangerous!

[andyhugill]

Thanks Marc, yes i've read these. Going to have to find a cheap replacement set as new are very expensive.

Anybody want a C5, lovely car as long as the sun is shining.

[Hell Razor5543]

Might I suggest that (as a stop gap) you consider using Rain X on your windscreen. It is a water repellent coating for the windscreen, and can work well. It may well help if your wipers throw a wobbly at an awkward moment.

[mikal]

Mine went 2 yrs ago

[andyhugill]

Seems a common fault - again. Did my steering rack 6 months ago, and a leaky suspension pump. Shame cos i've had C5's for the last 10 years and they've been great with only minor grumbles but this one is putting me off citroen again.

Yes RainX i've got a bottle in the garage and will be putting some on tomorrow and let's hope it doesn't rain for the next few weeks while it's gets sorted.

Cheers

[wurlycorner]

Holy cow...
I can see how the changes they made from hydractive 2 to hydractive 3 in going electronic, made the system simpler and requiring less maintenance (hence it is progress) but...
A hundred years of one wiper motor, linked to two wipers via a cheap, pressed steel mechanical linkage... Replaced by two ecu's and two motors?
What on earth is the possible good reason for that?!
This is absolutely (-expletive removed-) nuts

[GiveMeABreak]

Several reesons Iain:

The X7 wipers do not move in parallel, they move towards the centre and then back out, each one making a complete 180 degree sweep.

This has several benefits, one, that more of the windscreen is wiped, leaving only a small section of the upper centre section unwiped, so almost edge to edge wiping with better vision. For this to happen though, the wiper arms need to move independently so they don't collide, hence the 2 motors.

Secondly it saves money for the manufacturer, as they no longer have to provide separate components for right hand drive markets like here and Japan. As the traditional system of parallel wiping leaves a significant area of the passenger side windscreen unwiped which of course would be the driver side over here.

A 20 second video of these here:

[xantia_v6]

But the Peugeot 308 has opposed wipers and manages to make do with a single motor.

[GiveMeABreak]

Maybe it's down to the design at the time and the 308 having a smaller windscreen so they could do it on one motor?

This 308 doesn't seem to have them though....



On further checking, the 308 (T9) from 2013 on has gone back to the Parallel wiper system, so only pre 2013 models had the opposing wipers.

[wheeler]

The Xsara Picasso also uses a single wiper motor but has opposing wipers.

[Paul-R]

Secondly it saves money for the manufacturer, as they no longer have to provide separate components for right hand drive markets like here and Japan.

I believe that isn't true though Marc.

LHD and RHD cars have a different sequence of operating the wiper arms and this means different motors. That makes a total of four different motors to be stocked. Hardly simplifying things.

The Mk2 308 does indeed have parallel operation of the wipers. I can confirm this from our 308.

[GiveMeABreak]

Well it is acknowledged through various sources that this is a cost saving measure Paul - so that is debatable. A quote from Bosch:

More and more carmakers are exploiting the advantages of the Bosch two-motor wiper systems. These systems, in which each of the wiper arms is driven by its own electric motor, offer the largest possible wiped area, yet are compact in construction. "The driver therefore gets the best possible view even in bad weather, and the carmaker has more space in the engine compartment for other units" is how Markus Schmidt, responsible for sales in the Energy and Body Systems Division at Bosch, explains the benefits of the system. Bosch, the world’s largest automotive supplier, began series production of the equipment in 2001. It is fitted, for instance, in the new Ford Galaxy, as well as in the recently-launched Mercedes-Benz S-Class and the Citroën C6.

In conventional wiper systems, the two arms are rigidly connected by a linkage arm, and are driven by a single motor. The Bosch two-motor wiper system synchronizes its two drives entirely electronically. Integrated sensors continuously monitor the precise position of the wiper arms. This allows the change in direction to be individually determined; the change can therefore always take place very close to the A-pillar, which provides the widest possible field of view under all conditions. Precise control of this sort is also needed, for instance, to park the wiper in the A-pillar, as is done in the Seat Altea. When the wiper is switched off, the wiper arms, together with the flat Aerotwin wiper blades, can disappear completely under the engine hood. This improves aerodynamics, and reduces the risk of injury to pedestrians and cyclists in the event of an accident. It is also possible for the wiper equipment to work fully automatically when combined with the Bosch rain and light sensors.

The wiper equipment offers real advantages to automobile manufacturers, particularly for integration into vehicles with opposed-pattern systems; it is more compact, and its two-part design means that it can be fitted very flexibly into the space available in any vehicle. Conventional systems require an awkward wiper linkage arm. Particularly in the multi-purpose vehicles that are becoming more and more popular, the Bosch wiper system helps the vehicle manufacturer make the best possible use of the tight space. Two-motor systems are therefore being used more and more often in deluxe vehicles and in both medium and compact MPV’s. "At present about five percent of all the cars manufactured in Europe are fitted with a two-motor wiper system. This proportion will double over the next five years," is Bosch expert Schmidt’s confident assessment.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscreen_wiper[quote]A cost benefit to the auto-maker occurs when wipers configured to move in opposite directions do not need to be repositioned for cars exported to right hand drive countries such as the UK and Japan.[/quote]

The point being there are multiple systems in operation and I was offering some examples.

[petef]

Having replaced the steering rack sometime ago on my 2009 tourer, I thought the next thing to fail would be the front window lifts. But now it appears that the windscreen wipers may be competing for that doubtful honour! Having bought the car in 2014 I thought that I would check that it had already been dealt with in the wiper motor recall. Strangely though my VIN number is nothing like the ones in the recall as listed on the VOSA site. Mine has RWRHRJ in the middle followed by 8 numbers, the VOSA VINs have 9L followed by 6 numbers. Does this mean there are different wiper motors for different C5 X7's of the same age, mine was first registered in May09? Or was the recall incomplete?

Question for Marc really.....

[GiveMeABreak]

I responded to this question on the other thread - but repeated here.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54676&p=566637#p566635

No, same wiper units Pete regardless. It will be down to the batch that were fitted between the particular build dates. There were no replacement parts shown - so I suspect it was an internal part such as the motor that was potentially faulty and replaced on subsequent batches, but nothing materially different to the mechanism.