1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

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Lighty
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1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Lighty » 16 Mar 2014, 10:07

Thought some of you guys may like to see these pics I took. We have just had a 1.6HDI in with a "low oil pressure warning" on the dash.
The car has had a turbo fitted recently, but the garage didn't remove the sump. Fortunately they did remove the turbo feed pipe strainer, otherwise we would be looking at another new turbo as well. It is remarkable that the engine was still running at all, and tbh anothe 10 or 20 miles would have probably killed it.
It took the sump off, and removed the oil strainer completely, mainly to get it into some decent light in order to get a good look at it. The whole plastic assembly is held on with 3 Torx screws, and a clip onto the dipstick tube.
Once off & in some daylight, this is what I found inside .
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This pic shows the rubbish picked up a little better, it would not wash out with solvent , but needed a good scrape

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This was a clean cardboard box when I started, lots of shiney bearing bits in here , like glitter #-o

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This is what it should look like when clean, took about 20 mins , and 1/2 litre of brake cleaner.

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Here it is bolted back onto the engine


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Just a quick shot of the sump, which highlights how much the sump bung assembly prevents all the oil coming out when drained

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After a new oil filter and a fairly rattly restart, the engine now sounds fine, and the message has disappeared .
Time will tell if lasting damage has occurred, but the car may as well be run to see. Car in question has done around 70,000 miles.

Xantidote
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Xantidote » 16 Mar 2014, 16:58

Very interesting photos Lighty, thanks for posting them :)

citroenxm
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by citroenxm » 16 Mar 2014, 20:35

Yup! Thats what Kills them Turbos!!

NOW Go check those injector Clamp Bolts!!! Soot is getting into the oil! Is the pickup strainer is that bad then when fitted what chance has a turbo strainer!

Luckilly my sisters was QUITE clear, but I still doused it in petrol and cleaned it all out!

So, be sure to check ALL those injector clamp bolts, and make sure none are loose! Or else you will be dooing this again soon!

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bobins
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by bobins » 16 Mar 2014, 22:35

What's the reasoning in having a sump drain bolt in the pan that won't actually drain all the oil ? I know there's been talk of a small pilot hole somewhere in the vicinity of the sump bolt to allow the last remnants of oil to drain - but it seems a bit of a lousy design to me....... what gives ? I can understand a requirement to have the drain bolt protected from being clobbered from below, but surely there's better ways of doing this than having a sump pressing that won't easily allow all the oil to drain. Is it just a pathetic design - or am I missing something important ?

bxzx16v
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by bxzx16v » 17 Mar 2014, 07:26

Thanks for posting this Lighty, I WAS looking at a berlingo or dispatch with the 1.6hdi fitted but I don't think I'll bother now. Does the 2.0 16v Hdi have any issues like this?

Mark

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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by uncle buck » 17 Mar 2014, 10:23

Lighty,

Thanks for posting the pictures.

Just wondering if the engine is the 90 or 110 version and if it has a DPF?

Does the sump have a gasket or is it just fitted with sealant?
Is a gasket used when refitting ?

bobins wrote:What's the reasoning in having a sump drain bolt in the pan that won't actually drain all the oil ? ....
I think it's a design mistake, if it wasn't and there were no isuess with it why would Citroen have issued a special service bulletin detailing the oil change procedure for this specific engine.



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RichardW
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by RichardW » 17 Mar 2014, 11:04

Mine had started to pick up some crud when I had it off - I replaced it, it's only £15 (and comes with new bolts which are moulded in).

I can't tell if the car in the pic is 90 or 110, but it does have a DPF - you can see the sensing pipe screwed into the exhaust outlet from the DPF in the first pic that gives it away. The sump is sealed with silicone - there are 2 studs amongst the fixings which have shoulders on, and are used to pull the sump off - which makes it easy. New RTV sealant on refitting - the worst bit of the job is scraping the old sealant off - if I was doing it again I would get some remover from a DIY shed to make it easier.

uncle buck
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by uncle buck » 17 Mar 2014, 11:23

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I see the sensing pipe for the DPF now you mention it.

From all of the talk & pictures I've seen on forums the engines with the DPF seem to suffer from the crud a lot more than the ones without.


Cheers.

Peter.N.
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Peter.N. » 17 Mar 2014, 18:13

We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter

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Stickyfinger
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Stickyfinger » 17 Mar 2014, 19:49

Peter.N. wrote:We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter
Ditto....100%, if the oil gets dirty and generates deposits, change it at earlier than you did last time.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would keep to the recommended interval for an OLD engine, there is just no logic in it.

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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by citroenxm » 17 Mar 2014, 19:57

Stickyfinger wrote:
Peter.N. wrote:We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter
Ditto....100%, if the oil gets dirty and generates deposits, change it at earlier than you did last time.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would keep to the recommended interval for an OLD engine, there is just no logic in it.
I dont beleve its ANYTHING to do with longer oil changes! The HDi 2.0 8v engine has NO issues with their 12,500 oil intervals

Its a combination of DPF and injector clamp bolts... and prooving to be this too!!

citroenxm
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by citroenxm » 17 Mar 2014, 20:00

bxzx16v wrote:Does the 2.0 16v Hdi have any issues like this?

Mark
Not heard of any issues with the 16v 2.0 of this nature at all. The 2.0 16v is a DW family engine originating from PSA, where the 1.6 is the DV engine family, which is the Ford/PSA joint venture..

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Stickyfinger
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Stickyfinger » 17 Mar 2014, 21:01

citroenxm wrote:
Stickyfinger wrote:
Peter.N. wrote:We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter
Ditto....100%, if the oil gets dirty and generates deposits, change it at earlier than you did last time.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would keep to the recommended interval for an OLD engine, there is just no logic in it.
I dont beleve its ANYTHING to do with longer oil changes! The HDi 2.0 8v engine has NO issues with their 12,500 oil intervals

Its a combination of DPF and injector clamp bolts... and prooving to be this too!!
My point was that whatever makes the oil dirty (who cares, we cannot change whatever it is) it still requires an earlier oil change, this is additionally true with an old engine of which you have a short ownership and incomplete history.

SwissSPEC
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by SwissSPEC » 17 Mar 2014, 23:07

What exactly is all the crud inside the strainer? So glad i've got the 8valve 2litre HDI :)

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Stickyfinger
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Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Stickyfinger » 17 Mar 2014, 23:30

From what I understand, it is carbonized diesel/oil mix. A chemical engineer (Classic Jag racer) once explained to me that with older mineral oils, the carbon particular formation was like a snow ball, round and layered. With Synthetic oils in the mix, it forms in a laminar shard-like form, this is harder to flush as it locks together. He exclusively only used Castor or 100% mineral dependent on the race......