1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
User avatar
Lighty
Posts: 1103
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 16:53
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars:
x 34
Contact:

1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Lighty »

Thought some of you guys may like to see these pics I took. We have just had a 1.6HDI in with a "low oil pressure warning" on the dash.
The car has had a turbo fitted recently, but the garage didn't remove the sump. Fortunately they did remove the turbo feed pipe strainer, otherwise we would be looking at another new turbo as well. It is remarkable that the engine was still running at all, and tbh anothe 10 or 20 miles would have probably killed it.
It took the sump off, and removed the oil strainer completely, mainly to get it into some decent light in order to get a good look at it. The whole plastic assembly is held on with 3 Torx screws, and a clip onto the dipstick tube.
Once off & in some daylight, this is what I found inside .
Image

Image

This pic shows the rubbish picked up a little better, it would not wash out with solvent , but needed a good scrape

Image

This was a clean cardboard box when I started, lots of shiney bearing bits in here , like glitter #-o

Image

This is what it should look like when clean, took about 20 mins , and 1/2 litre of brake cleaner.

Image

Here it is bolted back onto the engine


Image

Just a quick shot of the sump, which highlights how much the sump bung assembly prevents all the oil coming out when drained

Image

After a new oil filter and a fairly rattly restart, the engine now sounds fine, and the message has disappeared .
Time will tell if lasting damage has occurred, but the car may as well be run to see. Car in question has done around 70,000 miles.
http://www.marklightfootltd.co.uk
Dacia Duster 1.5 dci
Renault Twizy Technic
Citroen C15
Citroen Ami
Xantidote
Posts: 1146
Joined: 03 May 2009, 22:07
Location: Merseyside
My Cars:
x 5

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Xantidote »

Very interesting photos Lighty, thanks for posting them :)
Martin

1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased :( )
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by citroenxm »

Yup! Thats what Kills them Turbos!!

NOW Go check those injector Clamp Bolts!!! Soot is getting into the oil! Is the pickup strainer is that bad then when fitted what chance has a turbo strainer!

Luckilly my sisters was QUITE clear, but I still doused it in petrol and cleaned it all out!

So, be sure to check ALL those injector clamp bolts, and make sure none are loose! Or else you will be dooing this again soon!
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by bobins »

What's the reasoning in having a sump drain bolt in the pan that won't actually drain all the oil ? I know there's been talk of a small pilot hole somewhere in the vicinity of the sump bolt to allow the last remnants of oil to drain - but it seems a bit of a lousy design to me....... what gives ? I can understand a requirement to have the drain bolt protected from being clobbered from below, but surely there's better ways of doing this than having a sump pressing that won't easily allow all the oil to drain. Is it just a pathetic design - or am I missing something important ?
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
bxzx16v
Posts: 1696
Joined: 29 May 2011, 22:11
Location: Sheffield
My Cars: Past Frenchies , 4xBx16v,1xBxGti,1xBxTzd,2xZx Volcanes,1xZx reflex,1xPug 405mi16, 3x Xantia 1.9td's,1x Xantia activa, 2x Renault 25 V6 turbo, 1 Zx16v ,1 Pug 406 V6 coupe ,1x C8 , 1x Berlingo van , 1x Xanti 2.1td , 1x Renault Laguna 3
x 35

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by bxzx16v »

Thanks for posting this Lighty, I WAS looking at a berlingo or dispatch with the 1.6hdi fitted but I don't think I'll bother now. Does the 2.0 16v Hdi have any issues like this?

Mark
2009 Landrover Freelander 2 TD4se (killed an Audi) , sadly now gone .
2012 Landrover Freelander 2 SD4 AUTO Love it . Now gone .
2014 Ford Bmax 1.0 Ecoboost Zetec . Fantastic little machine .Gone now.
2014 Ford Focus 2.0 Tdci Zetec S with the French heart.
uncle buck
Posts: 591
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 19:53
Location: UK - North east
My Cars:
x 5

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by uncle buck »

Lighty,

Thanks for posting the pictures.

Just wondering if the engine is the 90 or 110 version and if it has a DPF?

Does the sump have a gasket or is it just fitted with sealant?
Is a gasket used when refitting ?

bobins wrote:What's the reasoning in having a sump drain bolt in the pan that won't actually drain all the oil ? ....
I think it's a design mistake, if it wasn't and there were no isuess with it why would Citroen have issued a special service bulletin detailing the oil change procedure for this specific engine.



Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by RichardW »

Mine had started to pick up some crud when I had it off - I replaced it, it's only £15 (and comes with new bolts which are moulded in).

I can't tell if the car in the pic is 90 or 110, but it does have a DPF - you can see the sensing pipe screwed into the exhaust outlet from the DPF in the first pic that gives it away. The sump is sealed with silicone - there are 2 studs amongst the fixings which have shoulders on, and are used to pull the sump off - which makes it easy. New RTV sealant on refitting - the worst bit of the job is scraping the old sealant off - if I was doing it again I would get some remover from a DIY shed to make it easier.
Richard W
uncle buck
Posts: 591
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 19:53
Location: UK - North east
My Cars:
x 5

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by uncle buck »

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I see the sensing pipe for the DPF now you mention it.

From all of the talk & pictures I've seen on forums the engines with the DPF seem to suffer from the crud a lot more than the ones without.


Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Peter.N. »

We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter
User avatar
Stickyfinger
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 10411
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
Location: Somset my lovleee
My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally
x 1280
Contact:

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Stickyfinger »

Peter.N. wrote:We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter
Ditto....100%, if the oil gets dirty and generates deposits, change it at earlier than you did last time.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would keep to the recommended interval for an OLD engine, there is just no logic in it.
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by citroenxm »

Stickyfinger wrote:
Peter.N. wrote:We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter
Ditto....100%, if the oil gets dirty and generates deposits, change it at earlier than you did last time.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would keep to the recommended interval for an OLD engine, there is just no logic in it.
I dont beleve its ANYTHING to do with longer oil changes! The HDi 2.0 8v engine has NO issues with their 12,500 oil intervals

Its a combination of DPF and injector clamp bolts... and prooving to be this too!!
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by citroenxm »

bxzx16v wrote:Does the 2.0 16v Hdi have any issues like this?

Mark
Not heard of any issues with the 16v 2.0 of this nature at all. The 2.0 16v is a DW family engine originating from PSA, where the 1.6 is the DV engine family, which is the Ford/PSA joint venture..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
Stickyfinger
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 10411
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
Location: Somset my lovleee
My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally
x 1280
Contact:

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Stickyfinger »

citroenxm wrote:
Stickyfinger wrote:
Peter.N. wrote:We never used to have these sort of problems when the oil change intervals were 6000 miles, and of course unless you have had the car from new there is no guarantee that the oil was changed in accordance with the schedule. I'm convinced that it lack of maintenance combined with a small oil capacity that is killing these engines.

Peter
Ditto....100%, if the oil gets dirty and generates deposits, change it at earlier than you did last time.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would keep to the recommended interval for an OLD engine, there is just no logic in it.
I dont beleve its ANYTHING to do with longer oil changes! The HDi 2.0 8v engine has NO issues with their 12,500 oil intervals

Its a combination of DPF and injector clamp bolts... and prooving to be this too!!
My point was that whatever makes the oil dirty (who cares, we cannot change whatever it is) it still requires an earlier oil change, this is additionally true with an old engine of which you have a short ownership and incomplete history.
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
SwissSPEC
Posts: 227
Joined: 01 Jan 2011, 23:33
Location: North
My Cars:
x 1

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by SwissSPEC »

What exactly is all the crud inside the strainer? So glad i've got the 8valve 2litre HDI :)
CX GTI 2 Turbo (LHD) - Sorn
Bx Gti 16v
BX TZD Turbo - Sorn
C5 Mk1 LX 2.0HDi Estate
Mini Cooper D Clubman
User avatar
Stickyfinger
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 10411
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
Location: Somset my lovleee
My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally
x 1280
Contact:

Re: 1.6 HDI oil pick up issues

Post by Stickyfinger »

From what I understand, it is carbonized diesel/oil mix. A chemical engineer (Classic Jag racer) once explained to me that with older mineral oils, the carbon particular formation was like a snow ball, round and layered. With Synthetic oils in the mix, it forms in a laminar shard-like form, this is harder to flush as it locks together. He exclusively only used Castor or 100% mineral dependent on the race......
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Post Reply