Energy Matters Global and Domestic

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bobins
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins »

I can't see any meaningful way out of this in the mid to long term. Fossil fuels are the current evil spectre and a lot of people want to shun them - so what are your alternatives for a growing energy requirement both in our country and on a breathtaking scale globally in the mid term future ?
As the Grauniad article says - "Wind speeds have been low across northern Europe for most of the year." As good as wind power is, it isn't reliable enough - no matter how much of a cheerleader people are for it. Grid scale energy storage is a superb idea, but I don't think the amount of grid scale storage needed to be a wholly reliable nationwide energy supply has been quantified - as-in, just how many acres of battery storage would be needed and at what cost, or how many domestic battery banks are needed in each street and at what cost per household ? Nuclear energy is a (relatively) reliable energy source, but so many people shun it and the costs involved. Solar is a great energy provider.... but only when the sun is shining. People have lots of good ideas and suggestions about: 'The answer is....... <insert favoured energy supply/way forward here>', but all too often the real world economics of it - or more importantly the human perception of it and the need to change established habits mean take up is limted.
Emerging technolgies might prove the answer, but they better hurry up and transition from 'emerging' and come out fully fledged into the market. :lol:
I'd love to hear some reasoned solutions to the way forward, including how you change human nature and human habits, and how it'll be funded, and how it'll work with an ever expanding global economy and rampant consumerism on a more or less global scale. Any takers ? :-D
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Dormouse »

We have become accustomed to the "just in time" planning mentality and when it doesn't work out we run around in circles crying "woe is me" and trying to pass the blame on to others. When will we take a shine to ourselves and realise the buck actually stops with us! Perfect current examples are Christmas, the HGV driver and farm picker crises. Are they really crises and, if so, what should we actually be doing about them. Not any different from deciding about our role in climate change as far as I can fathom. It needs a solution but it has to be a solution everyone can live with.
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

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I think the issue with the 'just in time' way of doing things is that is doesn't risk capital on something that may or may not, in the end, be needed. And as we all know, money is the most important thing. Market forces will, ultimately, be behind the resolution of the lorry driving issue in that wages will increase and tempt more people into lorry driving, as well as the threat of the price of goods going up due to supply and demand issues, this in turn would have an impact on inflation and what people can buy, which will (has) made the Govt. change the way lorry tests are carried out in order to get more people into the industry.
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

bobins wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 19:33 I can't see any meaningful way out of this in the mid to long term.

...People have lots of good ideas and suggestions about: 'The answer is....... <insert favoured energy supply/way forward here>', but all too often the real world economics of it - or more importantly the human perception of it and the need to change established habits mean take up is limted.

I'd love to hear some reasoned solutions to the way forward, including how you change human nature and human habits, and how it'll be funded, and how it'll work with an ever expanding global economy and rampant consumerism on a more or less global scale. Any takers ? :-D
If anyone can come up with answers to all those concerns on the FCF they will be in the running for a nobel prize and in demand as a speaker at COP26 :-D Don't think its going to be me, :-D

The changing human nature and habits bit maybe only works on the basis of fear or reward. If the new way is cheaper and better people will use it and investors will invest in it. The flow of that investment right now is Solar Wind Battery.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 20:34
bobins wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 19:33 I can't see any meaningful way out of this in the mid to long term.

...People have lots of good ideas and suggestions about: 'The answer is....... <insert favoured energy supply/way forward here>', but all too often the real world economics of it - or more importantly the human perception of it and the need to change established habits mean take up is limted.

I'd love to hear some reasoned solutions to the way forward, including how you change human nature and human habits, and how it'll be funded, and how it'll work with an ever expanding global economy and rampant consumerism on a more or less global scale. Any takers ? :-D
If anyone can come up with answers to all those concerns on the FCF they will be in the running for a nobel prize and in demand as a speaker at COP26 :-D Don't think its going to be me, :-D



Regards Neil

It makes you wonder why they bother holding the COP26 meeting :-D
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by mickthemaverick »

Given that the current suggested forms of non fossil fuel energy supply are wind - not reliable, sun - not reliable, nuclear - not popular, wave - not too successful so far but not to be ignored, perhaps we should be looking deeper into other consistent natural energy systems. I believe that the three obvious options to consider first, given their consistency and abundance are:

1) the rotational kinetic energy contained in the earth:

An example is the calculation of the rotational kinetic energy of the Earth. As the Earth has a period of about 23.93 hours, it has an angular velocity of 7.29×10 to the power of −5 rad/s. The Earth has a moment of inertia, I = 8.04×10 to the power of 37 kg·m2.[1] Therefore, it has a rotational kinetic energy of 2.138×10 to the power of 26 KJ. quoted from Wiki

- that is a lot of energy, might it be possible to supply more energy from a magnetic device and draw energy by other magnetic devices, thus using the earth as a mega energy store and a smoother of supply and demand?

2) The magnetic field of the earth - currently not being used in an energy generation or storage that I am aware of.
3) the force of gravity - currently being harnessed in wave power generation but may offer more options with further thought and research.

It seems to me that by using an appropriately huge storage system with its own inherent energy the concepts of feeding it from worldwide sources and powering our systems from it we may be able to ensure consistent supply. In other words if we can devise a way to convert the sun's radiated energy into the earth's rotational systems across the world wherever it is shining and then draw back from the earth wherever we need it so that the sun would effectively be a source of energy from outside our earth system being used to power our needs!!

If you are still with me I'm amazed but what do others think of the concept? :)
Last edited by mickthemaverick on 18 Sep 2021, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Work it up and pitch it on Dragon's Den Mick :-D
--------

I'll put this here should anyone wish to hear the thoiughts of Tony Seba, not as a recommendation, in general Tony Seba isnt the most animated or entertaining presenter, but is well respected mostly right in his assessments so far, and spends a lot of time researching writing and presenting on such issues.

This is his latest, it lasts an hour and whether you agree with him or not it at least makes you "justhaveathink".
Dave Borlace often refers to him on his justhaveathink channel which is excellent, and Dave's weekly 10 minute or so vids are always worth watching, and less of a mouthful than the Seba 1 hour jobs.



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https://www.youtube.com/c/JustHaveaThink/videos

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins »

mickthemaverick wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 21:11 Given that the current suggested forms of non fossil fuel energy supply are wind - not reliable, sun - not reliable, nuclear - not popular, wave - not too successful so far but not to be ignored, perhaps we should be looking deeper into other consistent natural energy systems. I believe that the three obvious options to consider first, given their consistency and abundance are:


.....<Much snippage>


If you are still with me I'm amazed but what do others think of the concept? :)
I think............ I need another beer to get my head around it :lol:
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Why not use long thermo-couples? Drill some holes a few miles down, then have the 'hot' end of the thermo-couple at the bottom with the cold end at the surface, and the temperature differential might well produce some power (but probably not a lot until the technology improves).

There are also sites where there are underground coal fires (Centralia comes to mind). That could be a test site for thermo-couple generation technology;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 21:18

I'll put this here should anyone wish to hear the thoiughts of Tony Seba, not as a recommendation, in general Tony Seba isnt the most animated or entertaining presenter, but is well respected mostly right in his assessments so far, and spends a lot of time researching writing and presenting on such issues.

This is his latest, it lasts an hour and whether you agree with him or not it at least makes you "justhaveathink".
Dave Borlace often refers to him on his justhaveathink channel which is excellent, and Dave's weekly 10 minute or so vids are always worth watching, and less of a mouthful than the Seba 1 hour jobs.


Regards Neil

I shall enjoy watching that presentation just to see how much he deviates from accepted thinking.

My thoughts at present are that it's not about new disruptive energy supplies, or transport, or farming, it's about the ever expanding global population and the exponential rise of consumerism. That's a tough nut to crack.
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 21:11 1} the rotational kinetic energy contained in the earth:
2) The magnetic field of the earth - currently not being used in an energy generation or storage that I am aware of.
3) the force of gravity - currently being harnessed in wave power generation but may offer more options with further thought and research.
Number 3
Since gravity is unlimited, can we use it as an infinite energy source? the conclusion of that article is No!

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by mickthemaverick »

Further to that article on gravity I would make two points:
1) Yes gravity is a force and not a source of energy but my idea is to use that force of gravity as in hydroelectric generation, yes the energy comes from the sun initially but we use gravity as a tool to help us convert that form into usable energy. Thus if we can use gravity to convert sun's radiation into rotational energy in the planet, the fact that it is endless, within sensible timescales, makes it a useful option for converting and storing the sun's energy.

2) The vast majority of that article is addressing the earth's gravity but if you extend your thinking to the forces of gravity between heavenly bodies then you are able to use that gravity to produce storable energy as in tidal and wave systems etc.

In conclusion gravity is an abundant tool that we should make the most of in developing our energy conversion and storage systems. :)
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

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Dormouse wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 19:53 .............. Are they really crises and, if so, what should we actually be doing about them. Not any different from deciding about our role in climate change as far as I can fathom. It needs a solution but it has to be a solution everyone can live with.

The solutions we can live with won't have a meaningful impact. The really effective solutions....... no one will put up with.
And so it goes.
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Just thought of another way to use underground coal fires; steam generation. Obviously great care would have to be taken, and the actual generator plant would have to be built on solid ground (and not over the coal seam), but if you could get a decent amount of pipework down into the seam and then circulate water through it the resulting steam could then drive a few turbines, generating electricity.
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote: 18 Sep 2021, 22:03 In conclusion gravity is an abundant tool that we should make the most of in developing our energy conversion and storage systems. :)
Dave has done a vid on it posted earlier in the thread
NewcastleFalcon wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 21:22
Dormouse wrote: 15 Jun 2021, 10:30 You could have a Gravity Weight version like the test version in Leith Docks. Problem is you need one heck of a hamster wheel to wind it back up!
Didn't pick up that up Dormouse but I see its this lot.
https://gravitricity.com/making-news/
Might as well nick a picture, sure they wont mind the publicity
Image
My old pal Dave has done one of his video's on gravity storage



Regards Neil
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