C5 s1 Vs C5 s2 (facelift)

[Stickyfinger]

low down torque is king when towing/you are heavy........and for me, it is at any-time.
I hated with a passion the need to rev the car @2.5k just to pull away from lights smoothly even when not loaded.

[citroenxm]

Must of had an issue then, I dont need to rev mine past 2.5k.... it pulls away nicely as it is.. It wanted to stall, then I fitted a replacment Wastegate EGR vaccum valve and its been fine since... Yes, a little easyer to stall over the 8v HDi .. but certainly no where near 2.5k to get going... UNLESS you are refering to needing to when towing...

[wurlycorner]

I used a 2.0 hdi 8v for towing my trailer with a car on it!

Yep, that's exactly what I use it for.

not that it matters, but I am entirely confused now though... one post you say the 110bhp no good for towing and need the 138bhp, then 2 posts later say you used the 110bhp and found it fine!
Must be that new year time...
I must get on it myself really!


Engine spec wise all the performance looks higher up on the 1.6's, so yep, that's where I can't see them being as good, when towing. Which is what matters. They are very impressive figures for such a small diesel though - it must genuinely be a very efficient engine! I don't want to be having to sod about revving the tits off a car like this though - give me lazy low down grunt any day (all my revving fun is very capably delivered by the wonderful vtec h22's in my preludes )

[citroenxm]

LOL Sorry Iain... I have contridicted myself, tired tonight.... I think 2.0 16v hdi 138 is possibly the one to go for then....

Leave the 1.6 DV6 out completely then...

[wurlycorner]

Thanks. Appreciate your experience and info on the pre/post facelift and engine options - exactly what I was after.

We'll see what transpires when I go and look at some - three options currently in the running. All different! (but no 1.6's)

[Stickyfinger]

It does show we all have different needs and opinions based on those and that cars do perform differently for one vrs the other.

[wurlycorner]

Absolutely - can you believe there are even some complete nutters out there that think hydraulic Citroen's aren't for them?!

[Stickyfinger]

[citroenxm]

The 1.6 hdi I have will be up for sale once Ive done the cam belt and water pump and drop link (financial reasons)... but I think you be suited to a 16v hdi 138... however, bear in mind, Im sure, there is no DMF to solid conversion for these... hence the sugestion for an auto with 6 speed aisin box...

[wurlycorner]

I was curious about how the auto boxes stand up... Personally I prefer manuals, but am not averse to an auto. Done bugger all towing with an auto though (just an afternoon with a Tdi Disco).

I had heard bad things about auto's in some pugs though, so wasn't sure if the c5 was similarly afflicted?
Also reduction in engine braking??? (or am I wrong there?)
Any views?

[citroenxm]

New autoboxs now, well, even the ZF 4hp18 mechanical box, will on speed down automatically kick down to third and does give engine brakeing...

The aisin box's do sadly seem to have failiures, but for what reason I do not know. Im not sure if its again one of those - "ah sealed for life, never needs a service" fail, or incorrect fluid after a service been put in...OR inadequte fluid cooling for the box.. so, its a bit of a toss up, do you go manual and worry about the DMF, or go auto and worry about the box failing.. ?? And to be honest, that choice Id be in the same boat, and could not decide.
C5's will use the same setup as pugs, so what they have Cits will have...

[Stickyfinger]

Stick-Shift for performance, Auto for everything else, let the car work for you.

The boxes at 90-120K should be fine with a 3 stage change of oil/filter.

I really cannot be arsed changing gear on steep hills when loaded or for that matter sitting in traffic dipping the bleeding clutch every 20 secs on a trip into a town during the day.

The car is a big comfy boat and the auto suits it, even better with a V6 in it if you can get one , I would be more worried by the radius arm bearings on a C5 estate and would budget for that as well as the oil filter change on the Box.

[GiveMeABreak]

Less rattles and squeaks on the facelift and definitely longer / wider by a small amount ) it did list the differences in the Hatnes manual for the facelift profile). Lots of small cosmetic changes too like flat wiper blades easier to change lights and bulbs. Nicer dash and of course improved audio options. They also got rid of the auto window closing in the rain option, and the ability to open all windows with the fob by an inch, 2 inches and then all up. The remote will still close all windows after locking though with a long press. Esp/Anti Skid is a Godsend and saved me going into a wall on black ice one winter. Foot was hard on brake and heading for the bricks so I just turned wheel right and car somehow turned and avoided by a few inches! So never going to knock that system.
Generally they did iron out a lot of software bugs too, so get the S2 or an X7. I've just replied on your other thread too!

[citroenxm]

X7 a very different car.. its more c6 based. And less room inside. Facelift phase 2 Series one the way to go!

[KP]

Ok, so having been looking round today, there are s1 and s2's in my price range/locality.

What are the pro's and con's of each?

Obviously there are some cosmetic differences - s2 is prettier from the front end, s2 main dash is perhaps slightly prettier with the trim piece that runs full width across it. I think the clocks in the s2 look tacky but that's not a problem, I can swap them easily enough (I assume all use the same connectors/signals)...

Aside from that, what else is there of note different between the 2 (reliability/complexity/comfort wise) please?

Is there anything in particular I should specifically look for if I go to see an s2?

Thanks

Try changing headlight bulbs on a facelift model on the drivers side! Oh the joy!