1975 Renault 6TL

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ekjdm14
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Frustration

Post by ekjdm14 »

The crank is at tdc when the blob is at the 10 o'clock position, piston nearest the timing chain is at the top when the blob is at 2 o'clock
This statement makes no sense to me, "TDC" is the same as having piston #1 at the very top of it's stroke, Top Dead-Centre, what you have described here is (assuming the part about the piston being at the top @ 2 o'clock position is correct) seems to describe you setting all 4 pistons level to one another. This would be 90* before/after TDC.

I'm not the best at describing these things, but in the simplest terms I can think of, are you setting the timing with piston #1 at the top, or halfway down? it needs to be at the top

I would try to set it with the rockers removed but pushrods in place to avoid any damage/lockup while setting up, then set the crank position so you have piston #1 at TDC and mark the sprocket relative to the crankcase to help know where TDC is in future.

Then once you have a definite TDC setting at the crank sprocket, turn the camshaft until you see the *inlet* pushrod for cylinder #1 just begin to rise by maybe 1 or 2mm (the *exhaust* pushrod for that cylinder may, or may not, also still be moving down depending on valve "overlap" for this engine). With the piston at TDC and the inlet cam just beginning to lift that should be close enough to the correct timing for you to slip the chain on and tension it.

Before you reinstall the rockers, rotate the crank 90* (so all pistons are level) to avoid any valve damage if the setting is wrong, bolt the rockers down and turn the engine slowly by hand a few times afterwards to make sure nothing touches.

Depending on how coarse/fine the teeth on the timing sprockets are, this should get you within a tooth of correct timing if not spot on. (note, the ignition timing will need setting again afterwards as it may be 180* out)

Finally, once you've got it all timed up and known good, make your own permanent marks on the timing gear for future reference :) HTH
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Frustration

Post by vulgalour »

Okay, in that case I've got my terminology wrong again, I do that a lot with engines, it's frustrating for all concerned. I mean having all the pistons sat level in the middle in a line which is how it came to me from the engine shop. What I'm told is the 'safe place' for them since you're at least risk of component interference.

I shall now attempt to put your lovely clear explanation into practice and report back.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Frustration

Post by CitroJim »

I just spent a few minutes typing roughly what you typed ekjdm!!! Yours is much better than mine would have been ;) :D

Hope that works now [-o<
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Frustration

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

This may be a silly question, but can the sprockets be reversed? It might be that the timing marks are on the other side.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Frustration

Post by vulgalour »

It worked! Wow. That was surprising. What's also odd is that now those dots line up and the engine rotates freely by hand. I'm so happy, thank you so much!
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Frustration

Post by vulgalour »

I tried to take a video but... yeah. I'm going to need a helper to either turn the engine or hold the camera. And some better light. But anyway, it's turning by hand, things go up and down in an organised fashion now and it seems much better. It is, however, far too cold to do any more work in my poorly lit unheated little garage so a fuller update will have to wait.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Frustration

Post by CitroJim »

vulgalour wrote:It worked! Wow. That was surprising. What's also odd is that now those dots line up and the engine rotates freely by hand. I'm so happy, thank you so much!
Brilliant! I'm delighted :D
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Sorted (I hope)

Post by demag »

Yes I normally have the dots facing each other so I can run a straight edge through both sprocket centres and both dots in the absence of any other marks or info. Then turn slowly....

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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Sorted (I hope)

Post by ekjdm14 »

Brilliant, Glad it seems to be sorted and the timing marks now appear to be making sense. As with anything it's a constant learning process, the way it came from the workshop is indeed a "safe" position if timing is incorrect, same reason I suggested turning the crank 90* after TDC before fitting rockers back (thus lifting one or two valves as they went home).

Also, pleased my description made some kind of sense to others as well as myself. Normally I know exactly what I'M on about, and could do it in practise, but make zero sense when putting it into words lol.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 29/11 Timing Sorted (I hope)

Post by vulgalour »

With the engine hopefully timed correctly now there was nothing more to do than get things buttoned up. The weather has been changeable today so I got on with what I could before work while I had the chance. I figured out how to dismantle the front end on my own without removing the bumper or having bits of the car cartwheel down the drive, which was something. The key thing was pulling the face off, which was already unbolted just snagging on things because the weight of the bonnet was holding it when I tried to remove it. Bonnet off and it was much easier to do, easier to store the two pieces separately too.
Image

Then the fun task of putting the engine back together. First off I had to slacken the bolts on the sump (which was a chore) so that I could get the rubber seal on the timing chain cover to sit in properly. Bolt the cover up nice and tight and then retighten the sump (which was a chore again) and that was this end good to go.
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Then I could do battle with the belts which is also a chore. For the cam pulley to water pump belt you need to undo the cam pulley to jiggle the belt on and then tighten it all up again. Having the tensioner now working did at least make putting tension on the belt easier. Alternator belt was much easier as that's just a case of undoing the bolt holding the alternator so you can lift it, put the belt on and then effectively let the weight of the alternator tension the belt before tightening the bolt up again. While I was working on this side I got jubilees on both of the fuel pump hoses and tightened up the jubilee for the radiator hose. All the other hoses are easy to get to with the engine in the car. I also put the spark plugs back in and put the rocker cover on properly.
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With all that done, the only thing left to do before fitting the engine back in the car is to remove the steering rack. It was too dark to see what I was doing and throwing it down so I'll do that bit tomorrow which is at least straight forward. Plonked the bonnet on and called it a day.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 02/12 Update

Post by CitroJim »

More good progress :D

Shame your weather was a bit off today and hampered your work.. It's been lovely (relatively speaking) down here today and I've taken full advantage of it...

Whereabouts are you?
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 02/12 Update

Post by vulgalour »

I'm up in the North East, Stockton-on-Tees.
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CitroJim
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 02/12 Update

Post by CitroJim »

vulgalour wrote:I'm up in the North East, Stockton-on-Tees.
The BBC got your weather wrong today then :(
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 02/12 Update

Post by vulgalour »

Didn't they just? Today was nice though...

My poor little blue trolley, it was never designed to cope with my bullshit.
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It gained that war wound gallantly transporting the Renault's engine and gearbox to the engine bay so it could be battled into position. A late start and short days meant I didn't get as far as some and had to press on after darkness had fallen. Mike helped fight the last few bolts and such into place and Nugget the Corsa illuminated the scene.
Image

It is in. Finally. There's one stubborn balljoint nut that won't be sensible *spinspinspin* and tbh, it was getting difficult to see what I was doing. Engine mounts and gearbox mounts need tightening up and the various ancillaries plumbing in so a test run can be attempted. All of these are jobs for tomorrow if the weather continues to be agreeable.

It's got to get easier from here, right? It's just got to.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 03/12 Engine in

Post by demag »

Well done for your dogged Percy whotsit.

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'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.