Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

In we go to have a shot at getting the dead instrumentation working. The manual I've got doesn't give any information in to how to remove the binnacle...however the handbook does! Imagine that on a car these days...

Hmm...Why do I get the impression that we have, or at least have had something of a water ingress issue in the car?

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With those two flat head screws there out and an identical two at the other side the faceplate comes off.

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Which is actually all you need to remove to deal with any issue with panel lighting as the lamps are all replaceable from the front rather than having to faff about removing the whole panel for that. I don't mind that design at all.

Four more screws (the inner Philips head ones) release the panel, and once some cable connections and the speedometer drive are disconnected it lifts out. The cable connectors are a rather familiar layout to those of us used to working on valve era technology.

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The speedometer drive comes in from the side to a bevel drive arrangement which actually makes it really easy to get to...which baffled me somewhat as that's usually the single biggest headache when removing/installing an instrument cluster. I certainly learned new swear words trying to reattach it to the speedometer in the P4. You just need to be really careful not to damage any of the dial faces or pointers when removing things.

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Our suspect on the bench. One slightly crusty looking Smith's 1300/20 10V voltage stabiliser.

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Which sure enough when tested on the bench turned out to be dead as a doornail. The heater was open circuit so not just a case of cleaning the points. This is all that's inside one of these.

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Just like a thermal flasher unit...which is basically all it is.

The innards of this one were stripped out and an L7810 10V regulator was attached to the inside of the lid to take its place.

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I could have just used flying leads to hook it up and either attached it to the back of the panel or to the bulkhead, but I preferred keeping the original case at least. Plus this should hopefully be a fit and forget solution.

Once everything was connected back up and the sender shorted to ground the temperature gauge (very slowly) started to climb just as we had hoped it would. So the gauge itself and the wiring to the sender is fine.

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Under the bonnet I set about reattaching the kickdown cable to the throttle linkage. I don't have a roll pin the correct size to hand, so a bolt and lock nut has been used for now for testing purposes.

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The missing bolts from the brake master cylinder mounting plate were located in the boot and reinstated where they belonged.

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Had a crawl around underneath the car and couldn't find anything obviously loose or missing, and made sure that things like the wheel nuts were actually tight.

There are definite signs of (relatively) recent money being spent on this car. Aside from the paint which looks to date from 2019, the front brake calipers have clearly been rebuilt (or replaced) in the not too distant past.

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This brake fluid clearly hasn't been sitting in here for decades either.

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Likewise the starter motor looks pretty recent. Not new, but it's clearly been replaced in living memory.

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Rear brakes aren't exactly pretty - but there's evidence that they have at least been doing *something* - which given the car hasn't been properly driven in forever isn't the worst start.

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The boot on the Di-Dion tube looks to be in decent shape and there's not oil peeing everywhere...though admittedly that may also be because there is no oil *in* it...Haven't got as far as checking that yet.

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Again, the condition of that hose clamp to me suggests that's been worked on pretty recently.

I think the rear suspension likely will need some attention though given that the car seems to sit lower on the driver's side than the passenger's side by a good inch or so.

The braking system passed my patented "stand on the pedal with as much strength as I can muster and hold it for 20 seconds" test without any drama. So with this all in mind I decided to take advantage of the lull in activity around here between the school kick out madness and rush hour starting and went for a slow, careful bumble around our block. This literally amounts to a roughly 300 metre square all on 20mph roads.

Even locked in 1st, there's no real way to get any meaningful revs involved in a setting like this, so I really didn't expect cylinder number 5 to spring back to life - and sure enough it didn't. However after a few circuits I didn't really detect any issues. Brakes are a little spongy, but it pulls up smartly enough and in a straight line. Gearbox seems to shift as expected, smoothly and without slipping, and despite the lack of a cylinder it definitely seems to pull well. No clonks, bangs or rattles from the suspension and it seems to waft quite nicely. Not a bad place to be starting from really.

This allowed me to cover a couple of miles, and to get some halfway decent heat into the engine at least. However it also allowed me to see where the temperature stabilised - right about here was the answer while bumbling around our estate.

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Hot oil pressure? Meh, we have some. Which given these engines and the absolutely fantastic accuracy these gauges are reputed to have I'll take as meaning "good enough." The warning light goes out instantly when the engine starts even when at temperature so I'm not worrying about that.

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I'll want to make a few more checks on things before doing a slightly quicker test - but that's also something I feel I can only really do at set times as the traffic is so damned busy around here most of the time. There's a petrol station 0.8 miles away on a route that doesn't involve having to deal with dual carriageways or anything like that, and I'd like to make that a target so I can slosh a decent amount of fresh fuel in the tank.

Also on the subject of fuel, a replacement for this fuel pump (or a rebuild kit) will be getting ordered this evening as this could also have been a major contributor to why our oil was so badly fuel contaminated.

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The diaphragm is highly unlikely to be ethanol resistant unless it's been recently replaced anyway, so it's a job that would want doing anyway.

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that we're most likely going to need to pull the left hand head off to investigate what's going on with number five, and have ordered a head gasket set to that end. I'd been holding off that initially while I tried to confirm which engine we had fitted. I'm now 99% sure that this is an SD1 Vitesse unit based on what bits of the number we can make out.

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The fact we can clearly read the compression ratio as 9.75:1 helps a lot as that narrows things down a lot. The only engines I can see which have both that compression ratio and a number starting "?0A" with the right number of digits. I'm open to correction there from folks who know these engines better than I do, but that's the result my own deductive logic has brought me to based on the list over here.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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MattBLancs
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by MattBLancs »

Gosh, I thought inboard disks brakes were really rare, preserve only of front of a 2CV and rear of a Jag - there they are on your Rover too, never knew that!

Good fixes so far and congratulations on the successful first bumble round the block! All steps in the right direction. Car looks a great buy! :)
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

MattBLancs wrote: 08 Sep 2023, 20:09 Gosh, I thought inboard disks brakes were really rare, preserve only of front of a 2CV and rear of a Jag - there they are on your Rover too, never knew that!

Good fixes so far and congratulations on the successful first bumble round the block! All steps in the right direction. Car looks a great buy! :)
They're a million times easier to work on than the Jag ones...which admittedly isn't saying all that much!

Here's what you can see of the Jag ones...with it on a lift.
Screenshot_20230908_172056.jpg
See also step one when doing any job on an XJ-S - Dismantle the entire car first.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by myglaren »

Some Alfas had inboard rear brakes too.
Also, the GS had inboard front brakes. Very easy to change the pads.
But not the handbrake pads.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by mickthemaverick »

My friend had inboard discs on the front of his Alfasud. Confirmed one day when a pad retaining pin failed and the pad was ejected straight through the bonnet!! :shock:
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

mickthemaverick wrote: 08 Sep 2023, 21:34 My friend had inboard discs on the front of his Alfasud. Confirmed one day when a pad retaining pin failed and the pad was ejected straight through the bonnet!! :shock:
Gosh!

As always, a good read Zel and keep up the good work :)
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Gibbo2286 »

One of my lady customers was given an Alfa Sud by her husband, the next day she was on the phone to me "I'm stuck in the rush hour traffic in Hereford the back wheel has locked up."
So off I go to rescue her, by the time I got there the cops and other motorists had dragged to car on to Steels (Motor dealer) forecourt, one of the pads was so worn it had slipped out of the caliper and was wedged through a hole in the disc.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

First time in...well we really haven't a clue I'm afraid!

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Yes this is actually less than a mile from home, but feels like an important milestone.

Missfire is still stubbornly with us sadly. Had hoped if it was something like a fouled valve seat that some revs with the engine under load might have cleared it. We did blow a HUGE cloud of black gunk out the exhaust on the first roundabout exit though! Once the gasket set arrives (and it's less than 32C outside) we'll dig into properly investigating that in more detail. There are a few things I can do to help narrow down if we're looking at a top or bottom end issue but it's just way, way too hot out there to do anything (including exist) right now. So I've retreated into a dark, air conditioned room to do something else. Which is annoying as there are a long list of things I'd rather be doing now - mostly relating to this car as it's the new toy. Also want to get the Caddy properly valeted so I can get it up for sale.

Wheel alignment has been added to the "sort this sooner than later" as there is evidently waaaaaay too much toe out going on at the moment. I'm not expecting the handling on this car to be anything other than seriously floaty, but it's currently a bit ridiculous.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

I think we might have found something - even though I abruptly realised that ignoring my prior decision to hide inside from the deadly laser that is the sun was foolish.

Exhibit A.

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Doing this between any other combination of valves reveals they're all sitting level...Except for the intake on number 5, which is sitting the best part of 1mm lower than all the others. Coincidence? Seems unlikely to me.

Also noted that there are no shims under the rocker pedestals. Which if everything is standard (including the head gasket) and the head hasn't been skimmed should be fine apparently. If the head has been skimmed or the metal rather than composite type head gasket has been used though, it may need to be considered.

Fact that we do have a valve sitting visibly lower than the rest is definitely an interesting development though. Reckon the next step there is probably to pull the intake and see if something has been inhaled that we might be able to remove...Doubtful, but removing that is a major chunk of the work involved in pulling the head which will likely be the next big step anyway.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

Does the valve move Zel? Not stuck in it's guide I assume? Have you tried gently teasing it upward so that it sits level? It might just be sticking in the guide right at the top of its travel...
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by MattBLancs »

Tease it upwards or tap it downwards (and bounce back on the spring with a bit of luck)?

Wondering if was sat with valve in that position far a very long time and spring alone isn't enough to move it.

Actually scrub all that as the rocker will have effectively done that multiple times on your recent drive. (Unless that or push rod is bent I guess and it's not been moved at all)

Think you are on the right lines to have a look from the other side. Borescope through intake manifold or too much of a tortuous route? A look down the spark plug hole at same time see if the top of the piston has been fighting with a foreign body.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Gibbo2286 »

I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on, looks like 'bite the bullet' time. :wink:
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by xantia_v6 »

I would say it is better to spend your time pulling the head rather than attempting external diagnosis. Whatever has happened, there is little chance of of an easy fix.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote: 10 Sep 2023, 10:05 I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on, looks like 'bite the bullet' time. :wink:
I'm always the eternal optimist :D
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by MattBLancs »

CitroJim wrote: 10 Sep 2023, 11:20
Gibbo2286 wrote: 10 Sep 2023, 10:05 I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on, looks like 'bite the bullet' time. :wink:
I'm always the eternal optimist :D
And me too!


(I'm not sure if I'd be pulling the head or look on eBay seeing how much a 3.9 goes for... :-D )

But reason for that, given the age and hence assumed simplicity, I'd not take too much persuasion to take the engine out whilst fixing. I could see it being one of those "whilst you are there, may as well also..." type jobs (i.e. turns into marathon of little improvements) where ultimately it's just soo much more pleasant on a stand rather than hunched over reaching into the bay.

When I took the engine out of my wife's 206, I was really quite daunted by it, but much less of an ordeal than I imagined so the "tipping point" for "may as well take the engine out" is a lot more easily reached for me! :rofl2: