Eolys?

[Vaszax]

The right vin of my car is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff], sorry.

[GiveMeABreak]

It's ok, I worked out the missing info in your VIN, so what I said is still relevant.

The pump IS NOT sold with the tank or with the pouch. You don't need a new pump unless your old one is faulty.

All you need is Powerflex additive pouch and for this vehicle it's usually in a 1.75 litre pouch.

This:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275182968371 ... BMyraYztBh

[Vaszax]

Thanks again!! Should i go for a genuine part or an after market is ok?

[GiveMeABreak]

As long as it is a pouch, and the type is 'Powerflex' and the volume is the same you should be fine. There are several producers of the additive pouches, but it must be equivalent to Powerflex and state this.

[myfirstpicasso]

Does the Eolys tank have a level sensor or a gauge ? I don't have the whole service history of the car and by the time I got OBD FAP app (and then later diagbox ) it was showing me 995ml FAPAdditiveRemain and now after 20k km it shows 895ml . I have logs showing it gradually decline.

But my question is if these values are calculated or measured by some sensor.

[GiveMeABreak]

Neither.

They are estimated values by the engine ECU, based on when the additive reservoir or pouch was topped up / replaced and the mileage undertaken, along with the actual amount of fluid dosed into the fuel tank. Only a small amount of fluid is dispensed into the fuel tank and this is determined by the quantity of fuel added.

[myfirstpicasso]

But is there a sensor to detect when the pouch might actually be empty ? Because some one could reset the counter in the ECU but not actually top up the Eolys. (dangers of buying a second hand car)

Also , if I understand correctly the engines always burns fuel containing small doses of Eolys instead of injecting this additive only during DPF regeneration.

[RichardW]

No sensor, just relies on people doing the job properly!

Yes, it's dosed into the fuel and is burnt all the time - it ends up in the soot and lowers the combustion temperature making it easier to regen the filter - particularly in passive mode.

[GiveMeABreak]

But is there a sensor to detect when the pouch might actually be empty ? Because some one could reset the counter in the ECU but not actually top up the Eolys. (dangers of buying a second hand car)

Also , if I understand correctly the engines always burns fuel containing small doses of Eolys instead of injecting this additive only during DPF regeneration.

That's perfectly true and we find that some unscrupulous people often tell the engine ECU the additive has been replaced without doing it just to clear the warning message. The new owner then ends up with a damaged additive pump (dry running) and has the expense of replacing the tank / pump module.

The additive injected into the fuel tank allows for lowering the temperature required for filter regeneration down from 550°C to 450°C, which helps with shorter journeys where the engine wouldn't always get up to the required temperature for passive regeneration.

As Richard and I've both said there are NO sensors for checking the Eolys additive level.

[Michel]

The pouch is sold separately, which is just replaced in the pouch holder. You still need a diagnostic tool to tell the engine ECU that the additive has been topped up.

Marc, do you know if you can reset the additive level with anything other than a Lexia? Friend of mine has a C4 GP with exactly the same issue, 2010 model but our friendly
Lexia owner is away for a while. I can fill the tank/fit a pouch but....

If I may be so cheeky, I'll post her VIN when she sends it to me, and if you could tell me what bag I need, or just if a top-up kit will do, I'd be most grateful..

M

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes just pop the VIN up and I'll advise you what she needs (pouch / reservoir / type of additive).

As for resetting, there are professional level diags that can do this to a greater or lesser degree. I can't advise which ones of course as I only use Diagbox. But I do know there can be problems with other diagnostic devices, depending on whether their software is up to date for the relevant vehicle and engine ECU / build date. So I guess a lot will depend on how frequently the owner updates it and as a lot of these are subscription based they may be out of date.

[myfirstpicasso]

The additive injected into the fuel tank allows for lowering the temperature required for filter regeneration down from 550°C to 450°C, which helps with shorter journeys where the engine wouldn't always get up to the required temperature for passive regeneration.

As Richard and I've both said there are NO sensors for checking the Eolys additive level.

I do not fully understand this.
1.Does the Eolys helps lower the temperature that the ash would be burned and eliminated ? The filter still heats up to 550°C but with the Eolys present in the fuel mixture the ash starts burning sooner , at 450°C.

or

2. Presence of Eolys , indicated by the calculated value of still present volume of Eolys in the tank , determines the computer to demand a regeneration at 450°C .


I am asking this because I have logged (using FAP OBD apk) the last trip where a regeneration occurred and the filter reached 550°C.
I do not trust the service history of my car and I suspect that the Eolys tank was not refilled but only reseted. I did not yet manage to physically check.

Under normal operation I get 150mbar of DPF differential pressure and at high speed / rpm can reach up to 200mbar . The DPF temp reaches 300-350°C under same conditions.
Should I be worried about this DPF ?

[GiveMeABreak]

The regeneration system is actually vary complicated in the sense that there is a lot of factors monitored and strategies employed by the engine management ECU to determine the level of clogging, the driving conditions and when there are best opportunities for a regeneration cycle to take place, bearing in mind fuel consumption too.

The Eolys allows for the particles to be burnt off at a lower temperature during a regeneration cycle, where this cannot naturally occur.

I may put up a more detailed guide on the DPF system when I get a chance so people can see what's involved.

[myfirstpicasso]

Is there a dedicated thread for the DPF ? As I said , I am interested in diagnosing the health of a DPF based purely on OBD data.
Some parameters are read from sensors , others are calculated based on data read from sensors . Others are calculated based on data input at service : for example the resetting the counter when changing the DPF or refill of Eolys.
I would like to avoid damage on upstream systems , turbo , EGR , injectors etc. caused by a clogged filter that was not replaced/cleaned but was reset only via OBD. (second hand car - dubious service history)

I am attaching a filtered history view of my OBD logs.

I would like to know if a max differential pressure (FAPpressure_max) of 250mbar is normal.

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes that's perfectly normal - and you would expect this figure to change constantly as the filter fills up with soot until the next regeneration where it will drop back down again.

There are multiple factors taken into account for the calculated values.

The engine management ECU incorporates maps modelling the weight of soot present in the particle filter, according to the type of driving encountered by the vehicle.

A type of driving is defined as a function of the following parameters:

• Engine torque
• Vehicle speed

During each hour of driving, the engine management ECU determines the type of driving encountered by the vehicle.
For each type of driving, the engine management ECU calculates a weight of soot (g/min):

• This value is added to the preceding values to constitute a value representing the total weight of soot accumulated, since the last regeneration
• The addition of the quantity of soot determines the theoretical moment of regeneration

History of vehicle usage (The engine management ECU records the driving conditions of the last 5 regenerations):

• The register of driving conditions is updated every hour
• The engine management ECU defines the vehicle’s driving profile and anticipates the most favourable moment for activation of the regeneration of the particle filter, in relation to the history of use of the vehicle

The amount of particles present in the filter causes its load loss to vary (input / output differential pressure).
This permanently measured value represents the load level of the particle filter. (Note that the differential pressure is used only as SAFETY vis-à-vis the particle filter and/or the engine. In the event of the filter becoming overloaded or clogged (very unfavourable driving conditions)).

The engine management ECU’s maps incorporate 4 levels of operation determined by graphs, from the calculation of the volume of the flow of exhaust gas.

The volume flow rate of exhaust gases is essentially calculated from the following parameters:

• Differential pressure
• Inlet air flow
• Atmospheric pressure
• Exhaust gas temperature (downstream of the catalytic converter)

"D" Differential pressure (mbar).
"E" Volume flow rate of exhaust gases (l/h).
"g" Filter punctured.
"h" Intermediate zone.
"j" Filter overloaded.
"k" Blocked filter.

So 250 mbar would put you just over half way of the 'h' intermediate zone.