P1210 fuel pressure regulator fault

[Rhothgar]

That sounds proper poorly.

Did you strip this engine and do some repairs?

Sorry I’ve not been following your story fully and I have a huge amount of stress going on at the moment to fully dive in.

If you do have engine in bits, I would double check the cam to crankshaft relationship to see if it has jumped a tooth. Perhaps you have already done this but I’d measure twice and cut once if you know what I’m saying.

You don’t want to do more damage.

I know you have invested a lot of time and energy into this and it’s so easy to throw the towel in but personally I wouldn’t give in especially as you’ve no doubt invested good money.

You’re right about your video skills. Can’t see a thing. I’ll have to have a look on PC to see if it’s clearer.

I’m sure you asked about injection flow as well somewhere. Link me to that please as I have a better idea of that now.

[darbuck]

Sorry to hear you are under stress and hope it lifts soon, believe me I understand stress I had a lot of it the last few years. I did have the engine apart and had to do a lot of work, head gasket and stem seals and tappets and a couple of valves.

please Don't feel obligated to help here if it's too much stress I will figure it out but if it helps to take your mind off things please do. I hope you feel better soon I know how difficult stress can be at times.look after yourself.

I have been thinking about the timing myself but I did pin the flywheel and cam so should be good. I will check circuit to pressure regulator first. I think the knock is caused by the rail pressure like water hammer in plumbing. The 4 injectors were showing -1.96 flow. I think the fuel is being pushed past the injectors uncontrolled at present. when I ran it on easy start it ran smoother and longer I am convinced it's starved of fuel but it was very acrid

[Rhothgar]

I don’t know your engine well enough but I had a situation with my 1.9TD a coupon of years back when I did the head.

Citroen in their infinite wisdom have several holes in the injection pump sprocket. I accidentally pinned a hole but the screw was cocked at an angle against the casting of the injection pump.

Recently on my HDi, I also recently replaced the cambelt having never done a common rail cambelt before. Of course, the injection pump doesn’t need locking off but I had a brain malfunction and ended up rotating the camshaft anti-clockwise instead of clockwise and the tensioner clockwise instead of anti-clockwise.

Started fine but sounded not right. Drove home from my mate’s only to find that the belt was very loose the next morning as the tensioner was not acting on the belt as it should have had I rotated it the correct way.

It’s easy to make mistakes. Back to the TD, I ended up re-pinning that and finding it was a tooth out.

Well. Your injectors are within range and I trust you followed whatever necessary procedure there may have been in re-coding or re-calibrating if such a thing is needed.

You’ve had a whole cornucopia of disasters with that car with water in the sump and more.

[Rhothgar]

If the second graph on your scan of live data is the fuel pressure regulator then it doesn’t look how I would expect it to. Not sure what %age open cycle ratio your engine should run at but I cannot imagine it would be much different to my 109 HDi.

So the ECU is telling the regulator that it needs to be open for longer because the pressure is too low BUT the pressure is high!

Check the return pipes are clear back to the tank as I said earlier. It may be causing the pressure build-up. It’s free to do too!

[Rhothgar]

And did I not see some data that said your fuel temperature was -10 degC somewhere?

Look at 9-57 (assuming this is your pump - if not, search and find the correct manual)

http://www.decbg.com/img/ddgx200_pricip ... manual.pdf

EDIT:

Sorry. It is your coolant temperature so probably not linked but why is it showing -10degC? Is that a scan from today or a historic scan from winter time?

Everything needs collating and thinking about.

Sometimes DTC's don't give an accurate description but P1210 states "Control". The ECU "controls" the fuel pressure regulator based on the signals it receives from various sensors. Technically, all need testing. Even if brand new, never assume something is not faulty to be sure. Verify it yourself.

What about P2033? You appear to have concurrent codes. I don't know if it would affect the mixture to the extent of the symptoms you are experiencing but have a read and a think about the following:-

https://www.troublecodes.net/p2codes/p2 ... mon_causes

And can you confirm that the fuel pressure to the pump is sufficient from the tank? Again, I'm not sure if a car as advanced as yours would not report this as being a problem if it existed. Obviously, lift pump failure was quite common on the earlier HDi's. I think on the old HDi you have to pass 900ml of fuel in a minute for it to be classed as within tolerance.

Does Citroen not have an official diagnostics run-down for this engine?

[darbuck]

All data was from last night. The cams are linked by a small chain in the valve case. The cam can only be pinned one way so it's unlikely to be it, like you I had a primera with the old Bosch type pump plenty to do wrong and and I done it all like you rotated backwards off by a couple of treet and didn't tension it correctly. Thankfully no major harm was done but unlike your one mine wouldn't run thankfully because I can only imagine the trouble I would have had if it had run.I am more careful with timing since but still making mistakes.

I never noticed the coolant temperature sensor. That could very easily be causing all of this. If The ECU thinks it's that far out it will overcompensate. I changed that sensor so I need to check if the wiring is good and if not throw the old one back in.. I can't believe I missed that thanks .

I had a similar problem on my Maxima Where it would start and cut out, the coolant temperature sensor had failed. They are a critical component to check in a no start if bad guaranteed to stop the car and on the same circuit as the fuel temperature sensor and I think linked to the regulator. I couldn't see the woods for the trees.It goes to show a second set of eyes can be can be the difference. I will look at it today I needed to take a few days off so going to get a bit of diagnostic work done. That is an interesting read, I will have to investigate further. I need to step back a bit here I think to get a better picture of the engine parameters. The first thing I usually check is coolant temperature sensor for no start. I just got so tied up with the regulator fault I forgot first principles, I will post up later today.

Thanks for all your help.I now have direction.

[Rhothgar]

Thanks for all your help.I now have direction.

You always had direction. You just lost focus and stray from the path!

Really looking forward to some positive news on this.

Interesting to hear that a coolant sensor could stop a car. It's why my preference is for the 1.9TD but I love the driveability of the HDi and one day, maybe, I will have a C5 X7 Tourer and come visit the Emerald Isle again. It's been a long time since I've been. It's an offaly nice place. A partner from long ago had relatives in Cahir. Her father, 'Old Irish' as he used to be known was a dead ringer for Arsene Wenger. An absolute dead ringer. I remember when we went for a saunter around Manchester, he attracted a lot of attention but nobody approached him. Probably thought he was out with family.

The C5 is a car I've always hankered after for its aesthetics and although the lack of hydra-pneumatic suspension lessens my lust for one, the guys on here tell me it's no biggie and I trust their judgement. It would be one less headache in one respect...

Don't forget to look at live data and do a wire waggle test to see if any data changes. Obviously, a temp sensor shouldn't see a wild change.

Whilst on the temp sensor, do check the wiring by disconnecting the ECU connector that contains pins H2 and H3 and the green connector at the temp sensor. Apply 5V to H2 and a 5V bulb from other side to earth and do same for pin H3. Bulb should be nice and bright. You watch Scanner Danner so I imagine I'm teaching you to suck eggs here. It's information that might be useful to someone else in future though who may not know.

Again, don't focus on one thing but focus on checking one thing at a time. Look back at my list of process and think what is the cheapest solution?

[darbuck]

True, likewise hopefully a simpl fix now I am concerned running engine the way it sounds will cause longer term issues. At this stage it's an electrical problem I think rather than sensor or actuator so it is most likely damage to the loom. So I will need to find it. This as I am sure you are aware are not so easy to find but patience and methodical checks should prevail.
As for the emerald Isle it has changed a lot in recent years some for the better some not so much. Progress isn't necessarily progressive. I too had a hankering for a long time for the x7 not so much at the moment as you can imagine. I am more conscious of my diagnosis now so hopefully we won't be waiting too long for success.

[Rhothgar]

True, likewise hopefully a simpl fix now I am concerned running engine the way it sounds will cause longer term issues. At this stage it's an electrical problem I think rather than sensor or actuator so it is most likely damage to the loom. So I will need to find it. This as I am sure you are aware are not so easy to find but patience and methodical checks should prevail.
As for the emerald Isle it has changed a lot in recent years some for the better some not so much. Progress isn't necessarily progressive. I too had a hankering for a long time for the x7 not so much at the moment as you can imagine. I am more conscious of my diagnosis now so hopefully we won't be waiting too long for success.

Aye. I hope so.

Looking at the other thread I posted on, Marc and others have provided a great deal of information. I would probably sit down with a pen and re-visit what you said, what they said, note down whether you acted on it, consider whether you may have missed something in light of what I have since said and really drill down into it.

Is it possible that you left a connector or two in when you lifted the engine out and have maybe stressed some of the loom? Only you know this.

Citroen wiring cannot have improved over the years. There is one connector on the HDi which can get stressed when the gearbox is removed to do the clutch. It is noted in the Reparage documents or whatever they are called as a known issue and it was through the immense help of this forum that I found that out when I had my own HDi woes.

[darbuck]

Yes I think I need to retrace my steps as best I can firstly here on the forum and then in the engine bay. I need to be more scientific in my approach. Leave it with me and I will post back later.

[Rhothgar]

And if you want a bit of light hearted reading to cheer you about my journey and woes with my HDi, fill yer boots:-

viewtopic.php?p=634987#p634987

viewtopic.php?p=652742#p652742

viewtopic.php?p=655657#p655657

We all have a different story to tell. Your journey appears to be one of purgatory too like mine was.

Wheeler is great with diagnostics. He helped me a lot with his experience so I wouldn't take anything from him. An absolute Godsend as are many others on this forum.

[darbuck]

Yeah totally agree Wheeler is very good and god rest him Citronut was an absolute engine angel,i will have a look at yours there may be something in there I might be able to use and sure if for nothing else to just the light reading in itself.

[darbuck]

I have now probed the harness from the exhaust,fuel and coolant sensor and the fuel pressure regulator and I have continuity back to the ECU they are mostly on the brown connector on the ECU there are one or two on the gray. I am going to have a well deserved cup of tea and a bite to eat and then pull out the power probe I think to make sure voltage is transferred as expected. Next I need to drain the coolant to remove the temperature sensor and test it. I am a bit concerned I am not finding any significant problems with the wiring that could lead to the issue at hand. Further steps you think I should take are welcome apart from setting fire to it of course

[Rhothgar]

A cuppa! Always a good leveller. Reduces stress and sets you up.

Well. I am going to say a continuity test is almost a waste of time.

Never used a power probe but great bit of kit. Mind that you don’t go applying voltage where you shouldn’t, of course.

As long as prove the wiring is good then you know it. An only be the temp sensor out of range and how to test that. It’s just whether you have sufficient data to test it against.

Something is clearly not right with the data of -10 degC.

Not that it matters but how did the sensor manage to raise to 23 degC last night. How long did you manage to run the engine for?

The figures are clearly not right at cold. I'd imagine it should have been recording maybe a few degrees less than air temperature do you reckon?

Of course, you do not have to remove it. You could graph it if the engine would run for long enough.

[Rhothgar]

A good read to go with this graph is this:-

https://www.picoauto.com/library/automo ... sensor5-v/

Note the comments about the accuracy of relying on the ECU reading through a serial diagnostic data socket! VERY INTERESTING! It shows you cannot essentially rely on it. Note also the need for good clean connections as for as this component is concerned so take care to properly inspect and clean the connectors with proper cleaner if you have any. Get it ruled out!