Aisin Tf-80 / AM6 Oil Change Questions (Mini-Guide Page 4)

[GiveMeABreak]

@ ivansimeonov

The full official procedure is here:

viewtopic.php?p=553039#p553039

[ivansimeonov]

Yes, I follow it, but what is concerning me is the quantity of oil that comes out. According this procedure quantity of oil that you can change is approximately 3l. But not states how much exactly - what I'm looking for is the exact quantity that should remain in gearbox. Around 3l is a bit of guessing. May be will repeat leveling. What's sure is gearbox switching better. Thank you !

[GiveMeABreak]

The capacity in the box is about 7 litres, so roughly 4 remains in. You can’t be precise, as the oil is in the torque converter. So that’s why you top it up and check for the dripping when following the procedure.

[moizeau]

Make sure the car is level, add another 0.5l of oil, warm the oil up to between 52 and 62 degrees going through the gears and then remove the level screw to confirm the level again. Are you measuring the oil temp of the gearbox using diagbox? The oil temperature on the dash (if you have this dial) is engine oil not gearbox oil.

[Sloppysod]

....... But not states how much exactly - what I'm looking for is the exact quantity that should remain in gearbox.......

You may be lucky with that, they probably don't even know at the factory as they use the level plug to gauge the amount.

I did read somewhere, not sure where, you should measure the oil coming out so you know how much should go back in. But then again you add another 0.5l before the final level check to make sure you have enough.
Good luck.

Tip, I used 1½ feet of fuel line and with a funnel attached to one end and a piece of 15mm copper tube in the end. The copper tube fits in the hole. Makes filling a lot easier.

[ivansimeonov]

OK, I've made quick research. ATF is expanding about 8%. So basically when you put 3.5l cold (about 20 degree Celsius) oil in gearbox and you heated up to near 70, you actually gets about 3.8l oil when starts leveling. In this point of view seems normal to drain out about 0.9l which lefts you with about 3l added oil. This calms me, but will try another leveling. Thanks for yours answers.

[moizeau]

I've done several changes on mine and have never got that much out, 0.9l to 0.5l is a lot more than 8%. Maybe there was too much in there in the first place which is clouding the issue. Use Diag for temps, not the dash gauge, 70 is too hot.

[Pappi]

Hi,
yesterday i had flush and refill my AM6 (TF80SC) on C5 2.2 HDi 200 MY2011, but not so sure that leveling went OK.
In short - drained the box on >60 degree, comes out about 2.7-2.8l oil.
2 times fill with 4l, starts engine, go through gears and drain. Last fill was with 3.5l - as per service manual : 3l refill + 500ml for leveling.
After last fill i had to drive the car to get transmission oil temp over 60 degree, but somehow missed the point to stop and it gets over 73, so need to wait few minutes with engine off to let it cool down a bit.
When oil temp reached 65 degree started the engine, moved the lever through the gears and open level plug.
For my surprise goes out about 850-900 ml before start to drips which seem a bit more than the video of Volvo that is posted above.
Basically math says : 2.7-2.8l first drain + 850ml comes out when leveling is about the 3.5-3.6 that we had added on last refill.
But still confused if everything is correct with leveling because comes out more than 500ml ?
The procedure went at independent garage, but they are not autogearbox specialists.

Regards

You are supposed to fill with 3 liters. You filled with 4 litres. That's why more came out for you.

[moizeau]

I've just done a triple flush today because it was starting to flare. I had a spare set of seals, the viton O ring for the level plug and the the large aluminium washer for the drain. OEM.
Thought this maybe useful for sourcing from a bearing supplier.
O ring P No. 2209 45(PSA) measurements stated on the packet 6.07 x 9.63 x 1.78, so it's a 6.07 x 1.78
Ally washer P No. 2219 23(PSA) measurements are 20 x 27 x 2
Can't find the drain screw Part No but that's PSA anyway.

[Spir0u]

Hello,

My dad owns a 2013 C5 X7 with 220000 kms and despite regular visits to a Citroen shop, the transmission oil was never changed. I believe changing the oil of the transmission is not part of the regular maintenance in the instructions given by Citroen hence that would explain why this was never done...

Anyway, he's been recently experiencing problems with his gearbox, there was a jolt when shifting from neutral to first or reverse gear so I advised him to have the oil changed which he did (Flush of the approx. 3 liters of 7). However, the garage where he maintains his car recently lost its Citroen agreement and was not able to perform a reset of the oil wear counter hence the behavior of the gearbox didn't really improve.

As i own a Multidiag device, I was able to find a function to reset this oil wear counter which I did. Immediately, the gearbox's behavior improved drastically but after 1 hour driving (despite running smoothly), the instrument displayed a default with the gearbox and stucked in 3rd. I instructed him to stop the car and wait 5 minutes, after which he was able to get back on the road without any problems and the gearbox still running very smoothly.

TL;DR
I would like to perform a new oil change as I believe the oil is still really degraded after a partial flush of an oil that's 220000 kms old...
I'm gonna buy a Lexia to assist me in this oil change and I'd like confirmation on what oil I need. Here is my VIN : VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Thanks and regards

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so your vehicle is Euro 5 rated and will be an (AM6-2 / AM6-2 / AT6/ AT6-3) type gearbox, as opposed to the earlier AM6.

So the PSA recommended oil is JWS 3324 or AW1 equivalent, (PSA Part: 9734R7 for a 2 litre container). Don't use JWS 3309 oil which is a different specification and was for the earlier Euro 4 AM6 Gearbox.

[Spir0u]

Thank you; Then I'm ordering this oil : AISIN ATF 6+ FE (ref. ATF-91005)
https://www.oscaro.com/huile-de-transmi ... 500-1667-p

What would you advise for this oil change on this gearbox, in regards of the oil wear counter, and number of oil changes needed ?

Thanks again

[GiveMeABreak]

The best to a near complete oil change you can get is about 3 oil changes over say a 3-6 month period, depending on the mileage you do. As you know about 4 litres remains in the torque converter, so can't be drained a a change, so doing 3 changes will allow the new oil to circulate with the old and generally remove as much as you can.

Citroen, like other constructors deem this as a 'sealed for life' box, which we know is rubbish and not changing the oil can lead to damage over time with all the burned clutch material circulating.

Once the oil counter is reset, it will reset the auto adaptives for the gearbox, so a good drive through all the gears is recommended afterwards.

[kaban]

Hi,
I own a late 2004 C5 3.0 V6 with AM6 gearbox. Im preparing to change some fluid but in Lexia my temp sensor shows -40 degrees permamently. Anybody practicing to measure temp with laser pyrometer?

Edit:

The problem was with v0.3 software in TCU. After update by Lexia to v0.9 it works fine.

[Harcix]

Hi,
I would also like to do the oil change myself and I do have some questions

• So far the best value oil ive found is Mannol MANNOL O.E.M. 8217 ATF WS MN8217-20 Automatic transmission fluid a 20l drum for 100 eur. Taking i would need about 10l that would come to 50 eur per change. Would you have any issues using this oil as opposed to, perhaps, the Toyota WS one or anything else? Im in Ireland, so shipping from UK is either not possible or would cost too much due to tax. Its still possible to ship and collect from Northern Ireland - maybe you can tell me, whats currently the best value in UK for the WS / 3324 oil?
• Where in Lexia can you find the gearbox oil temp and the oil reset? Havent looked into it but would be nice if i wouldnt have to go through all the menus