One cool Citroén!!

citroenesque · Unread post by **citroenesque** » 17 Aug 2010, 16:14

At the risk of sounding less than sympathetic, Xantia2.0 is sadly deluded.

Xantia2.0 · Unread post by **Xantia2.0** » 17 Aug 2010, 16:20

Ahh, you guys don't understand! The engine does get up to temperature. Just not the standard temperature! It's a proven fact that if you had two engines: One running at 90C, and one running at 50C, the one at 50C would last much longer!!

Sid_the_Squid · Unread post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 17 Aug 2010, 16:57

Xantia2.0 you can understand our skepticism, what your claiming is contrary to a lot of 'common' car knowledge, and right now you've not got anything to back up your claim except 'trust me' style statements.

Now I'm sure none of us are trying to be impolite, but without some evidence other than "trust me I've worked on cars" your statement is not going to be met with much credence.

If this is such a proven fact (I'm fully willing to accept the possibility) can you provide some evidence? If however this is an expression of opinion, then fine your 100% entitled to it, but please don't list as a fact.

f00lzz · Unread post by **f00lzz** » 18 Aug 2010, 08:33

Well i'm willing to consider the theory, afterall Xantia2.0 has an impressive mechanical record in being able to 'fix up' his own car without any help from the guy's on this forum... someone with such extensive mechanical knowledge should be listened too!

Unread post by **myglaren** » 18 Aug 2010, 19:48

f00lzz wrote:Well i'm willing to consider the theory, afterall Xantia2.0 has an impressive mechanical record in being able to 'fix up' his own car without any help from the guy's on this forum... someone with such extensive mechanical knowledge should be listened too!

While it flies in the face of the generally accepted theory, as you say, he hasn't done badly so there may be some knowledge to be acquired here.

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 18 Aug 2010, 22:55

andmcit wrote: • Increased engine wear and corrosion due to a greater concentration
of combustion acids, poorly fitting parts and excess fuel and water
(condensation) in the oil.

One thing to add is that a petrol engine that isn't fully warmed up will run rich, this means excess fuel in the cylinder bores. One effect of this excess fuel is to wash any traces of residual oil from the bores so instead of your pistons and piston rings being lubricated with oil, they'll ride more on the bare metal and wear more quickly.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 18 Aug 2010, 23:08

Cool engine?
Mayonaise anyone?

rmunns · Unread post by **rmunns** » 21 Sep 2010, 07:46

Xantia2.0 says he's been working on cars 10 years. Sounds like a full-time job for him, never known so much b******t in my life as he utters.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 21 Sep 2010, 08:15

Odds on he's a troll - hopefully if we ignore him, he will go away.... he's persistent though, and must have spent some time reading the forum, so you've got to credit him with that at least....

I've written this in another thread, and ready to be challenged, but so far, no biting on the other thread....

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 21 Sep 2010, 12:19

This running cold last longer theory sounds like a lot of horse puckey to me.

Xantia2.0 Cites the "fact" that and engine running at 50C will last longer than one running at 90C well I would like to see the test evidence for that statement, i.e number of engines conditions of test etc until then it's numbers plucked out of the air.

Simply because, yes I believe that under some lab conditions it may be possible to "prove" that running at 50C the engine will last longer just as I am sure that under different lab conditions you could prove it will last longer at 90C and life at steady state running temps prove nothing about real life life.

andmcit sums it up pretty well, will just add some other thoughts.

Translate that into aero engines (piston) where getting cold is not a problem they go to quite a lot of work to ensure that the engine runs at temps in the range of 90-100 even hotter in some cases. Now given the amount that it costs to do a major check let alone an overhaul of an aero engine if low temps equated to lower wear and hence more time between checks it would be done.

As regards oil and wear many years ago I read an article about running in. The thing which stuck in my mind was that on modern oils (and at that time we are only talking mineral based) was the conclusion that at 20K miles honing marks in the bores were still visible and that therefore running-in as it had traditionally been understood was a waste of time using modern oils.

I suspect that modern synthetics would add another dimension to this.

Keeping an engine for 20+yrs ? whatever one feels personally about the merits of doing this now by the time one is twenty or even ten years older ones view and priority's in life WILL have changed.

I would also suggest that it is worth considering that in a time span of less than twenty years diesel if available may well have reached a price which makes running a 2 Ltr diesel engine beyond the reach of common man.

Given that there are many engines running at designed temps on mineral based oils that have gone well beyond 250K miles with little or no work being done on the top and where the vehicle to which they are attached has deteriorated to a point where it has been scrapped for reasons other than the engine I see little point in trying to make the engine last another 100K.

just my 2 cents worth

cachaciero

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 21 Sep 2010, 12:38

Your last major paragraph, echoes my thoughts. People obsess about oil changes and the rest, yet corrosion or collision (or an accumulation of systemic malfunctions) kills their car.

Paris the Mi16 has probably almost 400K kilometres (say 240K miles) and the bores weren't bad at all when inspected in April 2010. Rings could be replaced. I call her Paris because she isn't very pretty and she's been around the block a few times.

Maybe it's just my nature, but the level of personal criticism directed at the OP by some other member in both this thread and others, seems a bit disappointing.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 21 Sep 2010, 12:45

the level of personal criticism directed at the OP

i was suprised at this too

seisporting · Unread post by **seisporting** » 21 Sep 2010, 12:47

Xantia2.0 wrote:

It's a proven fact that if you had two engines: One running at 90C, and one running at 50C, the one at 50C would last much longer!!

Proof please.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 21 Sep 2010, 12:47

addo wrote:Maybe it's just my nature, but the level of personal criticism directed at the OP by some other member in both this thread and others, seems a bit disappointing.

Hear hear!

Old-Guy · Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 21 Sep 2010, 12:53

My tuppence worth.

Given that the design operating temperatures for piston engines are, without exception, above 70ºC, I'm curious to know how Xantia2.0 obtains a 50ºC thermostat and fully synthetic lubricating oil formulated specially for 50ºC.

As for Cachachiero's comment about being able to afford diesel fuel in 20 years time, I remember that in the mid 1970's (when my children were very small) it was being seriously predicted that the world would, for most practical purposes, run out of oil in the first decade of the 21st Century - in other words before now. Consequently, I did not expect my children to be able to afford to run a car by the time they were old enough to have a license. However, I now anticipate that my grandchildren (now aged 3 and 1) - will, in all probability, own cars powered by infernal combustion engines.