Another "speared" Xantia strut top...Check YOURS!

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:15

Well, I did say there'd be more seen soon...

1994 CITROEN XANTIA SX TD BLUE Spares Or Repair ebay item number: 4651992643

"In the ten months we have had to replace the front suspension struts due to the last ones corroding

This bent the bonnet slightly but thats all we have had to replace"

Hohum

Andrew

LeeDJC · Unread post by **LeeDJC** » 24 Jun 2006, 09:00

After reading this thread, I had a look at my strut tops, and the rubber that is aginst the inner wing is cracked. I'll try and get a pic on later. Is this a sign of a likely "spearing"?

**EDIT**

Here we go:

If this does need replacing, which I wouldn't be surprised after looking more closely, where's the best place to get them!!

Cheers

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 24 Jun 2006, 10:21

LeeDJC wrote:After reading this thread, I had a look at my strut tops, and the rubber that is aginst the inner wing is cracked. I'll try and get a pic on later. Is this a sign of a likely "spearing"?

If this does need replacing, which I wouldn't be surprised after looking more closely, where's the best place to get them!!

Cheers

Yikes!

In that last picture the strut top is clearly failing. The bulging of the rubber is caused by the plate just above it bubbling with rust. I would be afraid of driving that car at all in that condition....

It also looks like the rubber block is shearing away around the perimeter of the boot...so it could only be a few months or less away from catastrophic failure...

Regards,
Simon

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 24 Jun 2006, 10:28

Hi Lee.

It's not reached critical mass YET and the bellows gaiter isn't drooping down but I'd say at the very least they're on it's way.

The rubber coverings both on the crown in the engine bay and the lower face covering in the wheelarch are being pushed away and are now peeling [from what can be seen in the pictures]. It's likely the metal behind the peeling rubber is crumbly and rust is penetrating the rather thin 2mm thick collar that holds it all together.

What also needs to be examined closely is the rubber collar seen up into the strut top from inside the wheelarch - this will split around the circumference as the weakening metal puts additional strain on the rubber.

A thing to remember, is the full weight of the car's heavy front end is supported by these and acted against by the high bar hydraulic pressure - it wont take kindly to additional stresses in the materials under this heavy loading amplified by weaknesses...

I've considered second hand [and have used some already to keep cars going] but don't think it's the long term answer as they'll be going the same way even if the're off a younger car. The sad answer to proper remedy/repair is to buy them new from Citroen or if you're lucky source some from redundant dealer stock that aren't 'full whack' price!

These look like they're going to be near £90 apiece before the dreaded VAT. What I'm dreading is Citroen discontinuing these from their stock shortly.

LeeDJC · Unread post by **LeeDJC** » 24 Jun 2006, 10:35

Thanks for the replies. I thought that was probably the case

I'm glad I saw this thread! I never would've checked the tops otherwise.

These things always happen at the worst possible times! We've got our wedding coming up at the end of July and all money is being poured into that at the moment, as well as the tax being due next week, AND the MOT is due a well!!!!

How difficult are these to change, and is the BOL any good to go by for this? I saw earlier in the thread that somebody managed to do these in around half an hour! Sounds good to me

Lee

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 24 Jun 2006, 11:21

Hi - the job isn't bad to do - the worst part is getting a replacement!!

The car needs to be totally supported and depressurised with the front end high up to allow the hub to drop down. The only other hassle is after undoing the large 24mm nut the taper on the inner ram needs to be knocked off the strut top WITHOUT damaging the threaded end!

It literally took longer to get the car jacked/supported and depressurised than removing and replacing the strut top! Half an hour will do it.

Andrew

LeeDJC · Unread post by **LeeDJC** » 24 Jun 2006, 11:53

Just did a search on Google, and found a cached post from the andyspares forum. A nice guide on how to replace the strut top.

Just ordered the top fron the local stealers.....£107 inc VAT

Better than a new top and bonnet though!!

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 24 Jun 2006, 12:43

ACTIVE8 wrote:Is there another way of diagnosing the problem other than the obvious visual check ?

By that I mean is there a specific particular noise which they make when they are wearing/worn, and starting to go, which would bring the problem to the drivers attention, before they collapse ?

Thinking about this, I think there IS a giveaway that it's gonna go!! On one of mine I caught with probably days to go there was a kind of 'stotting' about on lock as I pulled off a rough unmade lane near me onto the tarmac - it wasn't at any great speed but there was steering lock wound on and vertical travel on the strut - as the car moved onto the road and I felt a harshness.

The spheres on the newly acquired estate had needed changing immediately after I got the car which gives me the view this is a major contributory factor in causing the failure BUT the main killer is RUST on the rather thin metalwork! When you get your new strut top check out how thin the whole collar's thickness actually is near where the captive threads are - I'm guessing it's supposed to be 3-4mm thick but I've seen one de-laminate it's thickness to thin mm wafers and start splitting about it's circumference on the crown...

My local MOT guy I was talking to about this the other day says IF there's nothing he can physically get at to feel or see visually, the car CANNOT fail it's examination - they're not allowed to pop gaiters off etc and can only do a visual inspection in this area - sure they can jack the car up and allow pressure out of the system and give the suspension a tug about but not undo the bellows to see the rubberised collar and it's condition. What he CAN see is the surrounding rubber from underneath and the upper metal that is viewed around the crown - some of these 'look' ok but can still hide corrosion under the rubber covering.

Mind, VOSA are aware of this failure point and there have been bulletin updates of their search criteria on particular models/makes where weaknesses are manifest over time.

I'm sure this weakness is seeing many off the road into breakers or scrapped for parts on ebay. I've even bought an otherwise mint N plate VSX 2.0i auto with 11.5 months MOT where the strut had speared through the bonnet after evasive steering saw the Xantia strike the kerb to avert a nasty game of 'chicken' with a boy racer in a Nova barging against their right of way through a housing 'traffic calming' chicane...

Don't suppose anyone has now got a good VERY dark green bonnet and front passenger wing available for sale - I do keep asking...

Andrew

davethewheel · Unread post by **davethewheel** » 25 Jun 2006, 00:18

Mandrake wrote:
LeeDJC wrote:After reading this thread, I had a look at my strut tops, and the rubber that is aginst the inner wing is cracked. I'll try and get a pic on later. Is this a sign of a likely "spearing"?

If this does need replacing, which I wouldn't be surprised after looking more closely, where's the best place to get them!!

Cheers
Yikes!

In that last picture the strut top is clearly failing. The bulging of the rubber is caused by the plate just above it bubbling with rust. I would be afraid of driving that car at all in that condition....

It also looks like the rubber block is shearing away around the perimeter of the boot...so it could only be a few months or less away from catastrophic failure...

Regards,
Simon

mine on looks exactly like this from the underneath and the gaitor is at half mast, but from above looks perfectly ok, i was hoping to sort out all the other things my car has failed on first before i sorted it like abs sensor and low effort on rear brake but i'm getting a bit worried now and i think i order a strut top from the dealers

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 25 Jun 2006, 03:23

davethewheel wrote:mine on looks exactly like this from the underneath and the gaitor is at half mast, but from above looks perfectly ok, i was hoping to sort out all the other things my car has failed on first before i sorted it like abs sensor and low effort on rear brake but i'm getting a bit worried now and i think i order a strut top from the dealers

For what its worth, over here in New Zealand the strut tops don't rust at all, (no salting of roads) but what does happen is the rubber block fatigues and starts shearing.

When I first looked at my car before buying it both gators had fallen down and could not be reattached because the circular rings which they attach to were no longer circular... there were obvious signs of cracking and shearing between the inner and outer sections of the rubber block and the car was only 8 years old!

Luckily I got the seller to replace them at their expense, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the car...

Personally I feel that its a design fault that affects safety and really ought to have generated a recall by Citroen, but no such luck....I guess in a few years time we will start to hear of strut top failures occuring en-masse, and my only hope is that someone isn't killed by one failing at high speed....

Buyer beware....a very nasty little gotcha on an otherwise solid model of car....

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 25 Jun 2006, 03:34

andmcit wrote:The only other hassle is after undoing the large 24mm nut the taper on the inner ram needs to be knocked off the strut top WITHOUT damaging the threaded end!

Just in case anyone reads that and goes out to buy a socket/spanner, I should point out that Hydractive 2 models use a larger size nut - don't quote me but from memory its 27mm, while non-Hydractive 2 are 24mm. So remember to measure it first...

It is a relatively easy job, the hardest thing is actually pushing the shaft from the strut back up into the hole in the strut top - all you have to hold onto is the slipery shaft and if it doesn't line up perfectly you're in for a fun old time while you fiddle around...

Regards,
Simon

D.Slatford · Unread post by **D.Slatford** » 27 Jun 2006, 21:14

Dammit, I think one of the strut tops on the R reg TD I just bought might be going the same way. From underneath there's a section of bubbled rubber behind which the metal has crumbled away. The gaitor isn't showing any signs of letting go yet.

What also drew my attention to this was the creaking from that strut that only seems to be getting louder. Is this also a symptom?

Don't fancy tackling something structual like this myself, back into the garage for me

Oh, is this problem common only to Xantias? Was there any similar mass failure on the older BXs, XMs etc?

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 27 Jun 2006, 21:34

Creaking and groaning could well be a giveaway! Let's face it - it's not supposed to is it!?

Oh YES, BTW Xm's do the same thing too! Probably more chance as greater weight on the strut top...

Andrew

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 27 Jun 2006, 22:27

As far as I know its peculiar to XM and Xantia's only. CX and early models don't use McPherson struts so are immune.

I dont think BX's were affected except in extreme environments....and the design of the block was such that even if the rubber sheared away the shape of the metal parts would prevent it from comletely parting company and impailing the bonnet.

Whether C5's are affected nobody knows yet as they are too new to have failed yet. Whether Citroen discovered the problem BEFORE the C5 was designed and took corrective action is anyones guess....

Regards,
Simon

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 27 Jun 2006, 22:42

Yep, totally torn away from the collar by rust!! This one's off a VSX 2.0i Xantia.

Andrew