Energy Matters Global and Domestic

[Peter.N.]

No gas here but I've just spent nearly £1000 on oil but that equates to 10,000 Kw, allowing for boiler efficiency loss 8,500 kw, that should last us for a year, hopefully the price will have dropped by then.

Peter

[myglaren]

August
Electric=128kWh Gas=3M³
September
Electric=104kWh Gas=8M³

Annual average Electric=111.82kWh Gas=22.55M³
I take meter readings ever few hours and not going there.

[NewcastleFalcon]

My 8m³ in 4 days is looking a bit extravagant or plain wrong!
--------------------------------------------

Meanwhile the other wing who are charged with looking after the Country's energy security and supply and manage supply and demand on our behalf, the National Grid ESO, and the Gas wing of National Grid will each publish in October their Winter Outlook.

They may already be here ( (edit: er..no..these are just the "Early View" published in July the Usual Full Winter Outlook is not yet available but imminent)
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/researc ... er-outlook
They do the gas as well
https://www.nationalgrid.com/gas-transm ... r--outlook

If that's not horse's mouth stuff I don't know what is. Bit of a meal to plough through but no doubt the popular news outlets will tell us what's in them without us having to read them ourselves.

If they need to take the gloves off managing the nation's energy, come clean and have the plans to do it. If you are faced with ridiculous market prices to secure gas supply, then you also need need the option to reduce demand.

Here it is wrapped up in a nice cosy quote from Offgem

"This winter is likely to be more challenging than previous ones due to the Russian disruption of gas supplies to Europe." "Britain is in a good position with little direct import of gas from Russia...."Nevertheless, we need to be prepared for all scenarios this winter. As a result, Ofgem is putting in place sensible contingency measures with National Grid as well as the government to ensure that the UK energy system is fully prepared for this winter."

Glad someone is taking care of it on our behalf.

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

My 8m³ in 4 days is looking a bit extravagant or plain wrong!

Regards Neil

I have to agree there Neil, might be worth getting a meter check done!!

[Gibbo2286]

I got my annual statements from Shell Energy yesterday:

27 Sept 21 until 26 Sept 22

Your gas consumption 6797 Kwh, cost £307,

Your electricity consumption 1592 Kwh cost £455.

[NewcastleFalcon]

My 8m³ in 4 days is looking a bit extravagant or plain wrong!

Regards Neil

I have to agree there Neil, might be worth getting a meter check done!!

Found the culprit I think, it's that bloomin' boiler. The printed material tells me it's 33kW maximum output.

The Sticker info diverges from the printed stuff, showing 28kW but all the documentation etc has it at 33kW and the name of the model is a big clue! Installed in December 2018.

Regards Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

I have edited out my own calculations from my previous post. Think some decimal point and some rough and ready understanding needs a bit refinement.

Pretty simple should be. 33kW boiler, how much gas does it consume per minute at max output for DHW expressed in M³, as per the meter.

Regards Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

I have edited out my own calculations from my previous post. Think some decimal point and some rough and ready understanding needs a bit refinement. Pretty simple should be. 33kW boiler, how much gas does it consume per minute at max output for DHW expressed in M³, as per the meter.

Definitely the Gas Boiler which does the gas guzzling, I think it's pretty easy even without central heating on to rack up 2 cubic metres of gas use per day. The 33 kW boiler sees to that in spite of it having a very strict harness on it AKA keeping it switched off! Let it loose for 15 minutes for showering and hot water and it guzzles 8.2 kWh or 0.722 M³

Did a spreadsheet and the conversion factor for kWh to M³ of gas is
0.08800751

and the other way M³ to kWh is
11.3626666667

assumes calorific factor=40, correction factor=1.02264 and conversion factor=3.6

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

That still seems a lot to me! Our boiler has been in 9 years, it is an Ariston E Combi Eco rated at 28kWh. I wonder if yours has the auto heat function whereby it runs itself every so often to maintain the DHW temperature so you don't have to wait when the tap is turned on? I had my gas man disable that feature on ours when it was installed for the simple reason of extending the overall life of the burners and boiler as a whole. So yes when upstairs you do have to accept 30-45 secs of cold then lukewarm before running a bath but down in the kitchen where it is fitted there is only a 15-20 sec delay when doing the washing up. Seems to work well for us when you see our usage readings!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

I wonder if yours has the auto heat function whereby it runs itself every so often to maintain the DHW temperature so you don't have to wait when the tap is turned on? I had my gas man disable that feature on ours when it was installed for the simple reason of extending the overall life of the burners and boiler as a whole. So yes when upstairs you do have to accept 30-45 secs of cold then lukewarm before running a bath but down in the kitchen where it is fitted there is only a 15-20 sec delay when doing the washing up. Seems to work well for us when you see our usage readings!!

Yes, I have mentioned that feature before there is no customer adjustment on it to disable it. The only way to manage it is to switch the boiler off completely.

I presume the 28 kW or 33kW rating on the boiler will translate into it consuming a proportionate amount of that power whenever it is on and especially on a cold start hitting a maximum draw to raise the temp of the cold water in the DHW circuit. Even if it's on for a minute it may draw 33 kW for that minute. Is it illogical to equate that to 0.55 kWh of energy consumed. and an equivalent 0.048m³ through the meter.

Thats pretty much what is happening.

Regards Neil

[myglaren]

It does seem excessive. I had a 30 kW Baxi installed a year ago and it is used much more and consumes far less.
Four bedrooms, large sitting room with two radiators, bathroom, upper hall, lobby all with radiators and a large kitchen/dining room with a huge radiator.
Although paying more attention to not being wasteful I don't overdo it, I don't like heat but feel the cold and like to be at 22^oC ideally.
Not many baths these days, mostly electric shower and when the sun is shining (daylight anyway).
It increases when my grandson is here, he showers for half an hour and on full power (11.8kW) while I take about five minutes and use reduced power in summer, quite adequate.

I did try during a recent cold spell to shut all but three radiators off, my bedroom, the bathroom and the lobby which can't be shut off, the thermostatic valve won't close completely.
Didn't go well, the radiators started gurgling then the boiler shut down, low pressure.
It had chucked lots of water out and was running on air, the boiler cupboard was flooded.
Won't be doing that again.
Due a service so will ask the installer about that.

Gas M³ for the past couple of years. The new boiler is supposed to be 93% efficient.

60 March 2020
44
28
18
14
8
9
18
40
48
82
70
62
47
48
28
6 April 2021
3
9
12
9 Sept 2021 (New boiler)
15
49
59
55
49
32
16
3
14
7
2
3
8 Sept 2022

[mickthemaverick]

Yes, I have mentioned that feature before there is no customer adjustment on it to disable it. The only way to manage it is to switch the boiler off completely.

I presume the 28 kW or 33kW rating on the boiler will translate into it consuming a proportionate amount of that power whenever it is on and especially on a cold start hitting a maximum draw to raise the temp of the cold water in the DHW circuit. Even if it's on for a minute it may draw 33 kW for that minute. Is it illogical to equate that to 0.55 kWh of energy consumed. and an equivalent 0.048m³ through the meter.

Regards Neil

Likewise it can be adjusted on our boiler but not by the user, hence I got my man to do it during installation.

As for the calculation I'd agree with that logic but there will be an efficiency factor involved somewhere as each heating session will include ramp up and decline sections which are wasteful so the more times it operates within the standard hour the less the actual efficiency will be.

Hence a single hour's run of 33kW will consume 33kW and deliver 33 x efficiency factor in output. Our boiler is rated at 87% efficient but that will be reduced by the aforementioned waste periods of ramp up and then hot water left in the system to cool again before the next use. Hence say 6 runs an hour would give 6 x wasted energy of a single hour long run, although the operating time would obviously be reduced!! Thus 6 x 2 min runs would suggest 1/5 of 33kW used, where in reality it would be more than 1/5 because of wastage!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

I will probably not be able to resist doing a bit of more accurate timing, and energy monitoring of switching on the DHW. I think the calcs so far would suggest no malfunction in the meter, and the consumption of gas on a cold start up for DHW ties in with the rating, and efficiency of the boiler.

I have concluded that putting a typhoon on for a sink of hot water is 18 times more energy efficient than switching the 33kw gas muncher on, but putting on several typhoons may well be more efficient, would not a practical option for showering purposes.

No that needs a DIY rocket Stove, coils of copper pipe, a tank, and some common or garden plumbing fitings!

Plenty Too Long Didn't Watch Videos available on you tube, except that I did watch a couple!

Spoiler: show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afWJ6P_ ... [/Spoiler]
Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

I have just received an email from Bulb, our supplier, and was chuffed to read this part:

Own work

Combined with my cancelling the workshop rent standing order I have to say I'm even more impressed with our efforts!!

[myglaren]

Micro molten salt reactor can fit on a truck, power 1k homes.

As the US Department of Energy (DoE) continues to look for ways to improve molten salt nuclear reactors (MSRs), a team from Brigham Young University in Utah has designed one it says can fit safely in the bed of a 40-foot truck.

The molten salt micro-nuclear reactor, which will be built by Professor Matthew Memmott and his team, has a chamber that measures just four by seven feet (1.2 x 2.1 metres), has no risk of a meltdown, and can produce enough energy to power 1,000 homes, the university said. Prof Memmott separately told The Register the reactor's output should be around 10MWe.

The Register