C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
Moderator: RichardW
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: 23 Oct 2014, 21:35
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
Garage not open today!
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: 23 Oct 2014, 21:35
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
Ok folks the latest update is ;
Lexia peformed its checks on the actuator and all data came back as expected however there was areading of NO boost and the pressure was measured at 1200 millibar at idle and minus 900 millibar at 2500 rpm.
No one has physically looked at the actuator arm to see if there is any movement of the wastegate.
I am now wondering what the next move is .....as apprently the EGR valve which was replaced first had broken up and he says it may be that bits of this has fallen into the turbo and is jamming it from spinning up.
What I wnat to do next is physically see movement to comfirm the Lexia readings befor having to remove the turbo.
If it comes down to having the turbo changed does anyone have an idea of how long a job this is and what it entails ?
Obviously a ramp required ; any specialist tools needed other than that ...maybe there is a manual on this ?
appreciate the support Dave
Lexia peformed its checks on the actuator and all data came back as expected however there was areading of NO boost and the pressure was measured at 1200 millibar at idle and minus 900 millibar at 2500 rpm.
No one has physically looked at the actuator arm to see if there is any movement of the wastegate.
I am now wondering what the next move is .....as apprently the EGR valve which was replaced first had broken up and he says it may be that bits of this has fallen into the turbo and is jamming it from spinning up.
What I wnat to do next is physically see movement to comfirm the Lexia readings befor having to remove the turbo.
If it comes down to having the turbo changed does anyone have an idea of how long a job this is and what it entails ?
Obviously a ramp required ; any specialist tools needed other than that ...maybe there is a manual on this ?
appreciate the support Dave
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: 23 Oct 2014, 21:35
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
Ok foks todays update; The garage have now finally tested the actuator with a Mityvac and confirm the rod is moving and holding vacuum.
I will be collecting the vehicle tommorrow and will be taking an endescope to take a look at the movement of this rod when the vehicle is started up. I am going of previous posters here that the actuator should pull the rod back when started up and close the veins giving boost and when under load the actautor backs off and opens the veins reducing overall boost pressure.
I am thinking that if there is no movement of the actuator rod when starting the engine .... then the solenoid valve which opens and closes to allow the vacuum supply to the actuator needs replacing or there is a leak in the actual vaccuum somewhere.
If on the other hand the rod does move and there is still no boost then it must be that the rotor within the turbo is siezed for some reason and will need stripping down.
If anyone wants to add anything here or advise differently then please do so as I don;t want to take this turbo off yet.
will keep you posted ; Dave
I will be collecting the vehicle tommorrow and will be taking an endescope to take a look at the movement of this rod when the vehicle is started up. I am going of previous posters here that the actuator should pull the rod back when started up and close the veins giving boost and when under load the actautor backs off and opens the veins reducing overall boost pressure.
I am thinking that if there is no movement of the actuator rod when starting the engine .... then the solenoid valve which opens and closes to allow the vacuum supply to the actuator needs replacing or there is a leak in the actual vaccuum somewhere.
If on the other hand the rod does move and there is still no boost then it must be that the rotor within the turbo is siezed for some reason and will need stripping down.
If anyone wants to add anything here or advise differently then please do so as I don;t want to take this turbo off yet.
will keep you posted ; Dave
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- Joined: 07 Oct 2005, 16:31
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Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
I have experienced an electrovalve "sort of" fail it was working and I was getting boost, but hard acceleration would put the K light on, no limp mode, driven gently I could go for months without seeing the light, I picked a fresh one up at the breakers and the car is transformed.
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
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- Joined: 23 Oct 2014, 21:35
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
That's interesting as I have noticed previous to the fail hat when I accelerated hard up a hill it would put the depollution warning lamp on and be down on power slightly then as you say if I drove it around with less of a heavy foot under load so to speak I would not see the light at all.
appreciate that info ..........Stew
will keep this going ...
thanks Dave
appreciate that info ..........Stew
will keep this going ...
thanks Dave
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: 23 Oct 2014, 21:35
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
Hi Folks as promised todays update ;
Went to the garage and checked out the operation of the actuator with a camera endescope.
Started the engine up and the actuator pulls the rod back around 10mm from what I could see to the closed vein position.
However when I pressed the accelerator the rod seem to hesitate in and out finally giving up and returning back to its origin prior to engine start which I take as being the open position or no boost depsite being raise to around 2000rpm.
So to recap ; at idle the rod is pulled back and veins closed (10mm travel approx)
2000 rpm hesitant movement and rod pushed out of actuator to open position.
When I pressed the acccelrator slowly I could faintly hear the turbo attempting to spin up however this stopped almost immediately on increasing the rpm and in accordance with the return of the rod to open position.
I asked if anyone had taken the vehicle for a road test and they said they hadn't so I asked if it would be alright to take it out; they agreed.
I was accompanied by the owner I think and the vehicle is now worse than ever !
I struggled to get it up to 30mph and it kangarood about from idle to 1500rpm and was seriously under powered ; Mangement light came on several times and switched it off and restarted it 4 times before that dissappered but it didnt run any better and certainly not the same as when I took it in. I explained that prior to this I could easily acheive 70 mph all be it on a flat road ....now it cannot even replicate that !
I looked on the internet at the Trading Standards regarding garages and the repairs of vehciles and it states the following;
"
Our Advice Sheets
Vehicle repairs and servicing - your rights
When you take your car to a garage for servicing or repair, you enter into a legally binding contract with the garage owner. The contract is controlled by many laws including the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This law gives you certain consumer (sometimes referred to as statutory) rights. You are entitled to expect that the work is carried out with reasonable care and skill, within a reasonable time and at a reasonable charge. If a part is replaced, the new part should be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, and as described.
If a fault has not been repaired properly, you are entitled to ask the garage to carry out further repairs at no extra cost to you.. If it fails to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover your costs. If the garage fits a part that turns out to be faulty and it has not been fitted very long, you may be entitled to a refund, or you could ask for the part to be replaced.
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 prohibit commercial practices that are unfair to consumers. If a garage misleads you, for example charging for work that has not been carried out, the regulations may have been breached.
In the guide
The law
How do I check if the garage is reputable?
What if something goes wrong?
The law
A car is an expensive purchase so it makes good sense to maintain it and hopefully prolong its life by having it regularly serviced. Most garages are reputable and honest, but there are some garages that will carry out poor quality servicing and repairs at a high price or charge you for work that has not been carried out. Knowing your legal rights with help you deal with problems that arise.
When you take your car to a garage for servicing or repair, you enter into a contract with the garage owner, which is controlled by many laws including the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This law gives you certain consumer (sometimes referred to as statutory) rights under the contract. You are entitled to expect that the repair work is carried out:
with reasonable care and skill - this means that the garage should carry out the work competently and to a standard expected of a garage of that type
in a reasonable time (if there is no specific time agreed)
for a reasonable charge (if no fixed price was set in advance)
If the garage replaces a part during the service or repair, you are entitled to expect that the part is:
of satisfactory quality - this means it has to meet a standard that a reasonable person would regard as being satisfactory, taking the description into account, the price (if relevant) and all other relevant circumstances. The meaning of satisfactory quality also takes into consideration the state and condition of the part, whether it is fit for the purpose for which it was supplied, its appearance and finish, safety, durability and whether it is free from minor faults. Public statements made by the garage about the part's specific characteristics - particularly in advertising or on labelling - must be accurate and are taken into consideration when deciding if it is of satisfactory quality
fit for its purpose and any purpose made know to the trader - the part should perform as it is designed to do and must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the garage at the time of the agreement
as described - the part should correspond with any description applied to it.
*If a fault is not correctly diagnosed or is not properly repaired *, you are entitled to ask the garage to carry out further repairs at no cost to you. If the garage fails to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover your costs. In the first instance, you should write to, or email, the garage to inform them of your intentions. Include three written quotations for the repair that you have obtained from other garages and advise the garage that you will be claiming the cost of the average repair quotation from them.
therefore I will excercising my statutory rights and requesting that they continue with th repair of my vehilce at their own cost as they misdiagnosed the problem in the first place and have so far only managed to make the car worse.
maybe this is the route many other Citroen owners should take before allowing Garages to continue throwing new parts on cars at the owners expense without actually fixing the fault.
I will email them this info and reprt back.
Hope this helps you folks on here who are getting miffed at the reparers knowledge and dignostic skills to repair Citroens.
thanks NIC
Went to the garage and checked out the operation of the actuator with a camera endescope.
Started the engine up and the actuator pulls the rod back around 10mm from what I could see to the closed vein position.
However when I pressed the accelerator the rod seem to hesitate in and out finally giving up and returning back to its origin prior to engine start which I take as being the open position or no boost depsite being raise to around 2000rpm.
So to recap ; at idle the rod is pulled back and veins closed (10mm travel approx)
2000 rpm hesitant movement and rod pushed out of actuator to open position.
When I pressed the acccelrator slowly I could faintly hear the turbo attempting to spin up however this stopped almost immediately on increasing the rpm and in accordance with the return of the rod to open position.
I asked if anyone had taken the vehicle for a road test and they said they hadn't so I asked if it would be alright to take it out; they agreed.
I was accompanied by the owner I think and the vehicle is now worse than ever !
I struggled to get it up to 30mph and it kangarood about from idle to 1500rpm and was seriously under powered ; Mangement light came on several times and switched it off and restarted it 4 times before that dissappered but it didnt run any better and certainly not the same as when I took it in. I explained that prior to this I could easily acheive 70 mph all be it on a flat road ....now it cannot even replicate that !
I looked on the internet at the Trading Standards regarding garages and the repairs of vehciles and it states the following;
"
Our Advice Sheets
Vehicle repairs and servicing - your rights
When you take your car to a garage for servicing or repair, you enter into a legally binding contract with the garage owner. The contract is controlled by many laws including the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This law gives you certain consumer (sometimes referred to as statutory) rights. You are entitled to expect that the work is carried out with reasonable care and skill, within a reasonable time and at a reasonable charge. If a part is replaced, the new part should be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, and as described.
If a fault has not been repaired properly, you are entitled to ask the garage to carry out further repairs at no extra cost to you.. If it fails to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover your costs. If the garage fits a part that turns out to be faulty and it has not been fitted very long, you may be entitled to a refund, or you could ask for the part to be replaced.
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 prohibit commercial practices that are unfair to consumers. If a garage misleads you, for example charging for work that has not been carried out, the regulations may have been breached.
In the guide
The law
How do I check if the garage is reputable?
What if something goes wrong?
The law
A car is an expensive purchase so it makes good sense to maintain it and hopefully prolong its life by having it regularly serviced. Most garages are reputable and honest, but there are some garages that will carry out poor quality servicing and repairs at a high price or charge you for work that has not been carried out. Knowing your legal rights with help you deal with problems that arise.
When you take your car to a garage for servicing or repair, you enter into a contract with the garage owner, which is controlled by many laws including the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This law gives you certain consumer (sometimes referred to as statutory) rights under the contract. You are entitled to expect that the repair work is carried out:
with reasonable care and skill - this means that the garage should carry out the work competently and to a standard expected of a garage of that type
in a reasonable time (if there is no specific time agreed)
for a reasonable charge (if no fixed price was set in advance)
If the garage replaces a part during the service or repair, you are entitled to expect that the part is:
of satisfactory quality - this means it has to meet a standard that a reasonable person would regard as being satisfactory, taking the description into account, the price (if relevant) and all other relevant circumstances. The meaning of satisfactory quality also takes into consideration the state and condition of the part, whether it is fit for the purpose for which it was supplied, its appearance and finish, safety, durability and whether it is free from minor faults. Public statements made by the garage about the part's specific characteristics - particularly in advertising or on labelling - must be accurate and are taken into consideration when deciding if it is of satisfactory quality
fit for its purpose and any purpose made know to the trader - the part should perform as it is designed to do and must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the garage at the time of the agreement
as described - the part should correspond with any description applied to it.
*If a fault is not correctly diagnosed or is not properly repaired *, you are entitled to ask the garage to carry out further repairs at no cost to you. If the garage fails to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover your costs. In the first instance, you should write to, or email, the garage to inform them of your intentions. Include three written quotations for the repair that you have obtained from other garages and advise the garage that you will be claiming the cost of the average repair quotation from them.
therefore I will excercising my statutory rights and requesting that they continue with th repair of my vehilce at their own cost as they misdiagnosed the problem in the first place and have so far only managed to make the car worse.
maybe this is the route many other Citroen owners should take before allowing Garages to continue throwing new parts on cars at the owners expense without actually fixing the fault.
I will email them this info and reprt back.
Hope this helps you folks on here who are getting miffed at the reparers knowledge and dignostic skills to repair Citroens.
thanks NIC
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: 23 Oct 2014, 21:35
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
Continuing with an update on my vehicle ............
The garage in question decide they would speak to an engineer ? about the problem and get advice from him. As it stood the car would not even start ?
It was starting and running fine when I drove it in ...it just had no boost.
Anyway apparently the engineer advised them to remove the exhaust and see if it would start ...it did ?
They asked me to come down and look at what they had done ....the car was on a ramp with the subframe removed, driveshafts and the cat was off ...not the whole exahaust system. They fired it up while I was there and I could see the turbo actuator moving ....when I asked them to rev it up ...you could hear the distinct whistle from the turbo ?
So the Turbo seems to be now working ?
They are now saying that the problem is the blocked Cat and the DPF is 50% blocked .They want to fit a new Cat and rebuild it ...to see if that fixes the problem.
My question is this
How can it be that with the car starting fine before and running with no actual turbo working have an EGR valve fitted with no joy in making the TURBO work then end up with a car that wont start unless the Cat is removed and after it is removed the Turbo springs into life ?
Anyone have any ideas ?
I have said that I am skeptical that fitting a new CAT would cure the problem ...
anybody want to shed some light ?
thanks Dave
The garage in question decide they would speak to an engineer ? about the problem and get advice from him. As it stood the car would not even start ?
It was starting and running fine when I drove it in ...it just had no boost.
Anyway apparently the engineer advised them to remove the exhaust and see if it would start ...it did ?
They asked me to come down and look at what they had done ....the car was on a ramp with the subframe removed, driveshafts and the cat was off ...not the whole exahaust system. They fired it up while I was there and I could see the turbo actuator moving ....when I asked them to rev it up ...you could hear the distinct whistle from the turbo ?
So the Turbo seems to be now working ?
They are now saying that the problem is the blocked Cat and the DPF is 50% blocked .They want to fit a new Cat and rebuild it ...to see if that fixes the problem.
My question is this
How can it be that with the car starting fine before and running with no actual turbo working have an EGR valve fitted with no joy in making the TURBO work then end up with a car that wont start unless the Cat is removed and after it is removed the Turbo springs into life ?
Anyone have any ideas ?
I have said that I am skeptical that fitting a new CAT would cure the problem ...
anybody want to shed some light ?
thanks Dave
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: 23 Oct 2014, 21:35
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
CAR IS REPAIRED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE CAT WAS BLOCKED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3 garages later and £650 and she runs like a new un ...........
The first garage in Loughborough diagnosed incorrectly the EGR valve ...........absolute nightmare as they wanted to wash their hands of it after wasting time and money on the fitting of the EGR valve.They said my TURBO was knackered and I needed to see a turbo specialist as they aren't that familiar with Turbos ...its not their forte ????????????? Anyway I kept quoting the Sales of Goods and services act and insisted they continue with the repair at no further cost to me ....this was not taken to kindly and they fed me with more and more bull**** saying that they would get an engineer out to it; this turned out to be bogus ....
They then stripped the car down engine wise and removed the catalytic converter ; the vehicle would start now and the turbo could be heard to spool up !
They then said it was the cat blocked and wanted me to foot the bill £1200 for supply and fitting a new one but not guaranteeing that would be the cure !!!!!!!!!!! Bloody joke
I refused ...to which they then wanted me to pay £180 to build the car back up and take it somewhere else ! Again I refused stating that it wanst me who asked them to strip the car down but their engineer ...
Anyway I rang RAC up to let them know that my vehicle that had broke down with a non working turbo but still driving was at the garage they recommended me to take it to and was now 6 weeks later in a worse state than it went in ; I wanted it taking to another garage.
They acknowledged the situation and sent a recovery truck over to collect and take it to another more reputable garage where they had agreed to diagnose the vehicle fault properly ...
The subsequent garage told me withing 1 hour what the fault was without question; catalytic converter blocked ; this limits the amount of gases through the system and obviously has the knock on effect of not spooling up the turbo .............EGR not the cause.
So I had it removed and refitted a new one and hey presto she pulls like a train and achieves 55 mpg at 70mph on the flat with an average of 40 mpg urban driving....
So there you have it , no depollution lights come on at all and she even pulls like a train up hills .....no problem.
I hope this helps anyone else out on here that has had similar issues and thank everyone for their time on this forum
best wishes Dave
3 garages later and £650 and she runs like a new un ...........
The first garage in Loughborough diagnosed incorrectly the EGR valve ...........absolute nightmare as they wanted to wash their hands of it after wasting time and money on the fitting of the EGR valve.They said my TURBO was knackered and I needed to see a turbo specialist as they aren't that familiar with Turbos ...its not their forte ????????????? Anyway I kept quoting the Sales of Goods and services act and insisted they continue with the repair at no further cost to me ....this was not taken to kindly and they fed me with more and more bull**** saying that they would get an engineer out to it; this turned out to be bogus ....
They then stripped the car down engine wise and removed the catalytic converter ; the vehicle would start now and the turbo could be heard to spool up !
They then said it was the cat blocked and wanted me to foot the bill £1200 for supply and fitting a new one but not guaranteeing that would be the cure !!!!!!!!!!! Bloody joke
I refused ...to which they then wanted me to pay £180 to build the car back up and take it somewhere else ! Again I refused stating that it wanst me who asked them to strip the car down but their engineer ...
Anyway I rang RAC up to let them know that my vehicle that had broke down with a non working turbo but still driving was at the garage they recommended me to take it to and was now 6 weeks later in a worse state than it went in ; I wanted it taking to another garage.
They acknowledged the situation and sent a recovery truck over to collect and take it to another more reputable garage where they had agreed to diagnose the vehicle fault properly ...
The subsequent garage told me withing 1 hour what the fault was without question; catalytic converter blocked ; this limits the amount of gases through the system and obviously has the knock on effect of not spooling up the turbo .............EGR not the cause.
So I had it removed and refitted a new one and hey presto she pulls like a train and achieves 55 mpg at 70mph on the flat with an average of 40 mpg urban driving....
So there you have it , no depollution lights come on at all and she even pulls like a train up hills .....no problem.
I hope this helps anyone else out on here that has had similar issues and thank everyone for their time on this forum
best wishes Dave
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- Joined: 06 Nov 2019, 18:30
Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
Hi, I know this post was from a while ago but my grand c4 had the same lack of boost symptoms, checked egr, sensors, vacuum solenoid, vacuum pipes etc etc. But the car still holds back, and releases loads of smoke from the exhaust, had the dpf cleaned but no difference - so tried disconnecting the exhaust from the turbo and as above a clear difference in the fact you can now hear the turbo whistle.
Still have a bit of smoke but not as bad, so checked the intercooler and full of black oil - now cleaned it out along with connecting pipes etc.
Question?? Did yours smoke at all? The turbo had the same readings as yours. Going to source a new cat combined dpf tomorrow hopefully this resolves the lack of boosting.
Thanks in advance
Sam
Still have a bit of smoke but not as bad, so checked the intercooler and full of black oil - now cleaned it out along with connecting pipes etc.
Question?? Did yours smoke at all? The turbo had the same readings as yours. Going to source a new cat combined dpf tomorrow hopefully this resolves the lack of boosting.
Thanks in advance
Sam
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Re: C5 2.0 hdi 06 Model LOST BOOST ?
The user "wizaird" has not logged into the forum for 3 years, so you may not get a response form him, but good luck anyway.