Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

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bobins
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Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by bobins »

Earlier this week new member Lizzibee posted in the introductions about her (new to her) unwell C4GP which had gearbox problems. I went to run a Lexia session on it today - no major problems..... except the gearbox :(
It showed three faults:
P1800 Gearbox initialisation incomplete or not performed. Status - Temporary
P0949 Clutch initialisation incomplete or not performed. Status - Temporary
P1705 Gearbox input speed signal fault

I ran the gearbox gate learning routine - and all passed well and properly and all the actuators selected the gears properly, then it went onto clutch biting point learning routine - and that's where it failed. I ran the routines twice and both times the result was the same - each time it went to do the clutch biting point, there was a nasty clattering noise for between one and two seconds, then it reported a failure. It basically sounds like it was trying to work a clutch where the middle had been pulled out of the friction plate or there were loose bits attached to the clutch being whirled around - not a loud shuddering noise, just a clattering. We tried to move the car under its own power, and whilst the gears engage, no drive to the wheels is present. I had a look under the bonnet, but it was too cramped to be able to see much. It doesn't look like the gearbox has been off before, but there did seem to be a bit of metalflake dust near the starter/bellhousing area.
I can see how fault P1705 could be caused by a non functioning clutch.

What does the panel think - new clutch needed ? Any known faults with the clutch on these ?



The car goes straight into economy mode when you switch on the ignition, but I'm doubtful that even a BSI reset or fresh charge of the battery will make the clutch sound better :(
It's a 2007 DW10BTED4 2.0hdi with EGS 6 speed MCD gearbox, approx 66k miles shown.

Any thoughts, please ?

Edit: could a complete failure of the DMF cause the above symptoms ?
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
RichardW
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by RichardW »

Sounds like the clutch or release bearing is knackered - either way they box is going to have to come out. Note, it's not cheap.... my mate's just forked out £1200 for a new clutch (plus another £600 for a new gearbox, but hopefully that's not required in this case) on one of these....
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bobins
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by bobins »

Thanks for your thoughts, Richard. I must agree, it does all point to a clutch/release bearing failure, but it seems a bit low mileage for that to happen. It can't really be due to previous owner's abuse, as you don't get a great deal of influence on how the clutch is used ! :) I don't know how hard the EGS 'box's are on clutches, but I'd hope this isn't a regular occurrence :shock: Book time for clutch replacement is a gnats under 10 hours, so I can see how the cost could mount :(
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by lizzibee »

Thanks for this bobins, however now i have to find someone suitable to carry out the work. My next door neighbour is a mechanic but not a citroen specialist, should i ask them or go to a specialist?
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by Lighty »

Would agree with the suggestions that the thrust bearing or clutch has a fault, maybe even the dual mass flywheel.
It's worth noting that this work should be entrusted to some one who ABSOLUTELY knows what they are doing, fitting a clutch to these cars involve dismantling a lot of parts & you don't want this work carried out by any random garage.
The gearbox and clutch must be set up before any work commences, and then reprogrammed and set up correctly when finished.. We charge @ £800+ vat for this work.
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by lizzibee »

Hiya, so I have called a local dealer and two independent garages for quotes.

The first independent garage quoted £1500 Inc cat for "everything"

The second independent garage said that of everything would need replacing, worse case scenario it would be £1362 is, labeled as subject to strip down and finding out what's wrong.

The dealer quoted £1202 for dual mass flywheel and clutch kit.

Going to the dealer would be easiest because it is closest, but I do like the sound of the second garage better. What do you guys think?
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by RichardW »

On the face of it, I'd be tempted to take it to the dealer at that price (is that inc VAT though?) - at least they have the dig kit to bleed and program the clutch and box actuator. However, I would want to check that they have included for a new release bearing; and what clutch / flywheel they are proposing - the Cit price for the clutch kit + release bearing + flywheel is somewhere close to £800; which doesn't, apparently, leave an awful lot of room for labour. Having said that, I think my mate was also quoted £1200 from the Cit garage.
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by lizzibee »

Hi Richard, yes that is including vat, sorry I forgot to mention that. They worked out that price with their current clutch replacement deal at £699 and adding on the flywheel and an extra hours labour for that. I will have to ask about the release bearing.
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by RichardW »

Here's the part no and prices (approx, there are some differences in parts depending on age):

Part Number Description Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
0000204185 BEARING BUFFER 66.33 GBP 79.60 GBP 79.60 GBP

00002051R1 EXCHCLUTCH KIT 163.93 GBP 196.72 GBP 196.72 GBP

00002052P2 CLUTCH KIT 204.91 GBP 245.89 GBP 245.89 GBP

00000532X6 DUAL FLYWHEEL372.99 GBP 447.59 GBP 447.59 GBP

0000053754 XHEAD LOCK BOLT 0.64 GBP 0.77 GBP 6.16 GBP (8 required)

1613938780 RECONDITIONED DOUBLE FLYWHEEL 278.50 GBP 334.20 GBP 334.20 GBP

The release bearing is not that bad at £80. I've added prices for both new and re-con clutches and flywheel - Cit may well be quoting for re-con in their all in price. Possibly not so bad, but re-con clutches can judder - but that should be covered under the installation warranty if so.

It might be worth seeing how much it wold cost from Shipley to get it transported to Lighty's place in Ilkeston - I know he's done loads, whereas the dealer possibly hasn't; but then the dealer is on the doorstep if there any warranty issues....!
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by lizzibee »

I wouldn't mind taking it to Lightys
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by lizzibee »

Hi everyone, well it has been a while. My car has gone to a garage, the person that transported it seems to have thought that the driveshaft was broken, i should have taken a photo of what he was pointing at. The garage is telling me otherwise at the moment and have also said that they have run a diagnostics test and it is telling them that it is stuck in 1st gear
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by lizzibee »

The gearbox has been removed at the garage, they have said there are metal bits within the oil and have said i have a choice of three options

1. New citroen gearbox 3k
2. Aftermarket gearbox 1.2k
3. Have my gearbox stripped to assess damage, labour £250.

I am thinking of trying to find a reconditioned one, anyone have any advice on where is best to look?
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by RichardW »

Have a look for one getting broken on e-bay - my mate got a box for his that had only done 46k for £550. He's still having trouble with it, mind, but that seems to be down to the actuator.
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by lizzibee »

Gearbox is currently being stripped, the input shaft had a failed bearing and they suspect the whole box is buggered, waiting to hear more about it. Hava tried looking for a second hand one but have not found any yet. The clutch and DMF are knackered too.
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Re: Lizzibee's unwell C4GP - EGS gearbox and clutch

Post by RichardW »

One of these might yield a replacement box:

Ebay or ebay
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