Xantia rear door area moulding rust

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 05 Nov 2008, 16:25

Hi, This is my first help request mail in frenchcarforum. I have recently joined the forum. Here members are active and there are always immediate responses to the problems. I hope to make contributions as well. My Xantia experience started some years ago when I happened to test drive my current Xantia and it was "love at first sight". Since then I am a Xantia fan

.

The left rear door had the marks of rust along side the welding line. The area is marked in the photo. I have applied some color over it and it solved the problem for the moment.

Some time ago through indirect links I have seen a Xantia photo where the inner side of the same area was totally rusted. The owner has cut away the material and I guess he will fix it by welding a new sheet there. I couldn't understand the explanations which were in Czech language or Polish.

Here is my question: From where can I reach this cavity and apply some corrosion preventive fluid? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Exhume.dk · Unread post by **Exhume.dk** » 05 Nov 2008, 17:33

Have seen the same issue on other Xantia's..and i allmost have the same situation on my own, hardly as bad as yours, at the moment, but it will get there if action is not made..pronto

On my own it looks like its between the sheet, rather than from the inside out.

Regardless its a good thing to have the inside protected, and clean that area that is vissible on the outside , add some oil/lubricant in this area. That space between gaps. Not a spray'n pray, but with a small brush and some used engine oli works on the Pug, and it was from 1990 and still looks decent in those regions.

Rust protection people use a drill to get in the tuff places. And then seal the hole with a rubberplug. One could make a similar job, but use MotorBike-Chain lube or other adhessive oily that will stick.

Do not know if any major prefabricated holes are close to the inside of your area since im a new Citröen Xantia fellow my self.

Good luck

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 05 Nov 2008, 19:22

Seems to be common on the estates.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 05 Nov 2008, 19:27

Xac wrote:Seems to be common on the estates.

Xac, I was just about to post exactly those words!!!

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 05 Nov 2008, 19:54

Warming gently the area to be treated, will help any thin product to "creep" into fine gaps.

Here and in New Zealand, people often seem to favour lanolin based products, as they form a flexible coating. Otherwise, the standard fish oil or proprietary solutions will work but as others have said you need to work out how to get in there!

The rubber plugs referred to, can be easly found at the places who specifically sell rubber products (ie; extrusion, stripping, all that sort of stuff). They're dirt cheap.

Regards, Adam.

lexi · Unread post by **lexi** » 05 Nov 2008, 20:04

I`ve got it too on an estate. Is there a trap there? Will be getting the grinder and welder out shortly........nah wait till summer

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 05 Nov 2008, 20:16

Hi and thank you all for the quick replies. I will try to find a convenient place to drill a hole and use a rubber plug after the treatment.

I have been busy searching that web site where I have seen the rusty "horror" photos. Below photo comes with the credits to "marsalek/xantia/prah " from where I have copied it.

It is a page from Czech Republic and I have no idea what is written there but just check the photos behind this link. Amazing, unbelievable and horrible.
http://www.tenzor.cz/marsalek/xantia/prah/
This must absolutely be a design bug

Ross_K · Unread post by **Ross_K** » 05 Nov 2008, 21:53

VertVega wrote:

Looks familiar. The rear door shuts on my '00 Xantia looked worse than that with only 65000 miles on it. Gotta love salty Scottish roads... 8)

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 06 Nov 2008, 00:05

Th problem with this rust area that affects estates, is that the area behind the shut panel is virtually air tight and gets no change of atmosphere. So any water that is in there just stays there and carries on condensing and causing further corrosion.

The correct way to treat this oxidation of the panel is, firstly, to turn the iron oxide into an inert form, usually by coating with penetrative products like Jenolite, which is phosphoric acid in solution. This will turn the ferrous oxide into a more inert form, ferric oxide, which has less chance of reacting with water. (Hope my chemistry is right.)

After this treatment has been applied and been allowed to dry thoroughly, an inhibiting protective coating should be liberally applied. I used to use Waxoyl, which, as the name implies is a thick wax based coating. It was used as standard by Citroen on the CX models to stave off the problems caused by rust and bad body finish or design.

The only downside of using these penetrative solutions to inhibit rust or oxidation is that they penetrate the steel platelet structure and consequently make any welding repairs impossible. If the car needs any structural repairs, these need to be undertaken prior to any coatings being applied.

Coating the rusted areas with used engine oil, whale oil, grease, tar, lard or anything else you can think of will not inhibit the corrosion. Do not do it! If anything it may speed up the process as it will trap water in the steel plates and not allow it to dry out.

The easiest way to access these box joints is to use a hole saw, and use some of the underbody plugs that can be found in most cars. Even Citroens use them.

If you have the symptoms, bubbling paint around the joints, you cannot put off the repair as the corrosion has already started and any delay will just make for a costlier repair bill.

If you want more details PM me.

Handyman

marsalek · Unread post by **marsalek** » 06 Nov 2008, 09:31

VertVega wrote:Hi and thank you all for the quick replies. I will try to find a convenient place to drill a hole and use a rubber plug after the treatment.

I have been busy searching that web site where I have seen the rusty "horror" photos. Below photo comes with the credits to "marsalek/xantia/prah " from where I have copied it.

It is a page from Czech Republic and I have no idea what is written there but just check the photos behind this link. Amazing, unbelievable and horrible.
http://www.tenzor.cz/marsalek/xantia/prah/
This must absolutely be a design bug

Hi VertVega,
and thanks for visiting my site!
There is also a continuation of the repair...

Both images Copyright user "jk" from citroeny.cz/forum

The trouble is, that the middle sheet gets firstly affected by the rust and then it propagates to the outside.

From behind, through the big rubber/plastic plug (see image below)

you do not reach the affected cavity!!!! You end up BELLOW the affected sheet!

One possibility to prevent the middle sheet from rusting or to slow down the process, is to use some penetrative product (we use Fluid Film ASR here with great results, it is based on lanoline). There is an easy way, how to reach the cavity. From inside the car, remove the bottom bolt securing the seat belt and use a 6 mm drill (with its tip greased to catch the swarfs) to drill through the hole for the bolt. You DRILL THROUGH TWO SHEETS! (not more!) and you end up right above the rusty sheet. In the picture marked red. Take care, there is not much space behind the second sheed, say 5 mm. Otherwise your drill comes through the outside sheet.

After using FluidFilm ASR on my car (having no visible signs of rust), within two weeks the FluidFilm was comming outside between the sheets. I applied it 1.5 years ago and have still no signs of rust. The car is now 8.5 years old.

If I were you, I'd firstly thoroughly repair the paint on the visible parts and then immediately apply the Fluid Film or the likes. Only if this did not not help, next year you will have to cut the affected parts out and replace it by some home-made sheet, as there is no Citroen genuine repair set for this issue.

Karel Marsalek

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 06 Nov 2008, 10:33

Hello Marsalek, is you car a hatchback or estate?

I have often wondered if this corrosion was the resultant of the failing bootlid inner door seal on the estate models, allowing water to run under the carpeting into the well under the rear seat swabs.

This little puddle, apart from offering an interesting internal water feature, must seep through all seams and joints and this area looks to be the ideal location of the little river's path to Mother earth. The construction details in this area of the shut panel offers excellent properties to impede flow and retain moisture.

Do you have any photos of the repair in progress?

Handyman

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 06 Nov 2008, 10:53

Interesting comment about Waxoyling the CXes. Was that a UK-only procedure, because they have rusted faster than Xantias down here? For the record, my estate has lived outdoors pretty much all its life and has no real rust. Dust - yes.

Thanks to marsalek for the seat belt hint.

marsalek · Unread post by **marsalek** » 06 Nov 2008, 12:29

Hi Handyman,
myself drive an estate, in the photos the light blue one. In 8 years no signs of corrossion. The dark blue car on the others pictures is not mine. Do not know whether it is an estate or hatchback.

In Germany is the issue known as an "estate-only" problem, but have already heard about hatchbacks that suffer from that dissease too

Some other pictures are there:
http://www.citroeny.cz/forum/viewtopic. ... 7011#77011
http://forum.andre-citroen-club.de/show ... stcount=34
http://forum.andre-citroen-club.de/show ... ostcount=1
http://pics.tshw.de/12057870338da95.jpg
http://forum.andre-citroen-club.de/show ... stcount=24

Karel

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 06 Nov 2008, 17:21

Yes! Thank you Handyman for your instructions on corrosion fight.

Hi marsalek! Nice to meet you. Thank you for the detailed instructions. Great

marsalek, while I was looking for those pictures in citroeny.cz forum I have seen this message. If it is the same blue car (which is now world famous) it is a sedan Xantia. I have an estate Xantia. So both versions might have this problem.

http://www.citroeny.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11681

Anyway I know what I will do on the weekend. Rear seat removal is easy and I will inform you guys about the results. I promise photos as well

PS: Anybody who would like to use my photos which I link in the messages, just go for it.

marsalek · Unread post by **marsalek** » 06 Nov 2008, 20:24

VertVega wrote: marsalek, while I was looking for those pictures in citroeny.cz forum I have seen this message. If it is the same blue car (which is now world famous) it is a sedan Xantia. I have an estate Xantia. So both versions might have this problem.

http://www.citroeny.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11681

Hi, I am afraid, the pictures come from two dark blue Xantias. One is cruising through the Czech Republic, the other somewhere in Germany. You may have seen the link to the source of the last mentioned thread:
http://forum.andre-citroen-club.de/show ... ost4414815

Best regards and good luck for the operation on the weekend.

Karel

French Car Forum

Xantia rear door area moulding rust

Xantia rear door area moulding rust

Re: Xantia rear door area moulding rust