Xantia II Windscreen washer problem ** Solved **

[VertVega]

About a week ago windscreen washer literally "died". I have seen how the water went down as if someone has turned off the power from the pump.
After two days the wipers also stopped reacting to the stalk. Normally when you pull the stalk towards you windscreen wash operates and wiper also operates for a period of time.

Tailgate washer works fine and there is no problem with wiper or water.
Yesterday I have replaced the motor attached to washer bottle with a part from a scrap car.
Still no water to windscreen. It can not be disconnected pipe because there is no water spill under the car.

What to check next? Did anyone have the same problem?


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EDIT 12.9.2010: Problem is solved and it was caused by a partially malfunctioning stalk! Read further for details.
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EDIT 20.11.2010: To be more specific, only pulling the stalk towards me didn't work. All other below listed functions were fine.
-windscreen wiper (Intermittent, Normal speed, fast speed and single wipe)
-Demisting (Tailgate window and rear view mirrors)
-Tailgate wiper (both wiper and tailgate wash)
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EDIT 7.12.2010:

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[myglaren]

Pull the pipe off jets and run the pump, could be an accumulation of crap in there, then blow through the (disconnected) jets.
If that doesn't do it, disconnect at the pump and blow compressed air through the lines.
There is a non-return valve in there so you can't blow from the jet end.
How do I know this

[VertVega]

Just been to the nearest gas station. Disconnected pipe connection to bonnet
and blew compressed air both towards pump and jets separately. No change.

I am planning to change pipe connections (black and transparent) of the pump outputs.
I think I can use this in "emergency" cases where windscreen fluid is absolutely needed
I know that's a MOT failure.

[myglaren]

Did you test the pump when you installed it?

They have a propensity to fail and pump only to one set of jets.
The motor spins either way depending on the polarity of the applied voltage.
Flapper valves prevent flow to the wrong port but they fail, supposedly due to the use of incorrect washer fluid (cheap stuff as opposed to genuine Citroen dear stuff)

[VertVega]

Unfortunately I didn't test the pump from the scrap car.

Some years ago I bought water tank from a car breaker and replaced the leaking one.
To my surprise the tank came fully equipped (pump + headlight washer + level sensor)
and didn't ask if they were working. It costed only 10 EUR

Tomorrow I will check if it works when the pipes are changed. I hope it does

[the_weaver]

I had nothing but trouble with the washers on my ZX for years. If the Xantia uses the same system then it's basically a weak design. Having said that, once I finally solved the problems I had, it's been working fine ever since (more than six months).

The fundamental problem is the use of a single motor for both front and rear washers. The motor spins one way, or the other way, for front or back washers. There's no switchover valve as such. It works when everything is perfect, but if you get a leak somewhere, then the whole system starts giving random problems. In my case, I had a few leaks. One leak was where the rear pipe crosses over from the car roof to the hatch. It was leaking inside a rubber grommet. I also had some leaks where the pipe connects to the non-return valves. The leaks let air into the system. Water doesn't like flowing past air, as with an air lock. If you have air leaking in, in the front pipework say, then the water will only flow to the rear washer. The water always takes the easiest route, which is not past an air lock. I also had some problems with the non-return valves.

You might need to fix all leaks. Then check the non-return valves. Probably replacing them is the best option. When the system is working properly you should have water in all the pipes upto the non-return valves. Put flourescent screenwash in and you can see the water then. Operate the washers, then leave it for a bit and check that the water doesn't flow back into the tank. If it does you've probably got a leak. You might also have an airlock stopping the flow. In the case of an airlock, the way to clear it is to disconnect the pipe at the non-return valve and blow back through the pipe until you hear bubbling in the tank.

Here's some links to my previous posts about these problems:-

Paul

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

[the_weaver]

I just noticed you have a problem with the wipers as well. I suppose it could be a relay problem then. You might want to try re-seating the relay in it's socket. Disconnect the battery first, to be safe. The relay might be under the steering wheel, to the right, under the cover. Operate the wipers, washers etc and listen to hear if you can hear a relay operating. If you put your finger on the relays you might be able to feel one operating. Then, disconnect the battery and re-seat the relay. Don't pull it all the way out, just moving it in and out a bit might do the trick if it's a bad connection.

Paul

[VertVega]

myglare and the_weaver, thanks for your help.
Problem is solved and it was caused by a partially malfunctioning stalk!

I noticed that I have added a picture which is seen in second message link.
In the past I had two major problems with washer:
1. leaking water bottle (replaced bottle -> problem solved)
2. headlight washer pump activated on its own (disabled pump -> problem solved, saved lots of water)

The most annoying and embarrassing thing about the headlight washer was that braking at traffic lights
would cause pump activation. Turning off the engine and taking the key off doesn't help at all.
All that was caused by the PINK RELAY!

Anyway this time things were a bit different.

... I suppose it could be a relay problem then. You might want to try re-seating the relay in it's socket. Disconnect the battery first, to be safe. The relay might be under the steering wheel, to the right, under the cover. Operate the wipers, washers etc and listen to hear if you can hear a relay operating. If you put your finger on the relays you might be able to feel one operating. ...
Paul

As the_weaver suggested I found the relay(s) activated with the washer stalk signals.
There are four black mini relays under the dashboard. It is difficult to
tell exactly which one of the four ticks with different washer stalk signals.
May be someone can tell us from wiring diagrams. I took several photos and marked other relay numbers which
I was able to see from pictures.




Elimating possibilities one by one (pipes, pump, fuse and relays) next I had to try new stalk.
I bought stalk from someone who was breaking his Xantia. Since the stalk was still on the scrap car
I had the chance to practice how to remove steering wheel covers and the stalks. After that installation
on mine was very easy. It was a BIG relief to get water to the windscreen and wipers on at the same time.

==============================================
Edit: 3.10.2010 Some pics of wiper stalk removal.





Since I didn't need old wiper stalk anymore , I had the chance to get a pic like this

[myglaren]

Nice to hear it is fixed now.

[ACTIVE8]

Pleased to hear it's fixed.

I read through the thread, and found the pictures that you took the trouble to do, thanks for posting them, but does anyone have the info to identify them for reference purposes please.

[RobinMasters]

myglare and the_weaver, thanks for your help.
Problem is solved and it was caused by a partially malfunctioning stalk!

I noticed that I have added a picture which is seen in second message link.
In the past I had two major problems with washer:
1. leaking water bottle (replaced bottle -> problem solved)
2. headlight washer pump activated on its own (disabled pump -> problem solved, saved lots of water)

The most annoying and embarrassing thing about the headlight washer was that braking at traffic lights
would cause pump activation. Turning off the engine and taking the key off doesn't help at all.
All that was caused by the PINK RELAY!

Anyway this time things were a bit different.

... I suppose it could be a relay problem then. You might want to try re-seating the relay in it's socket. Disconnect the battery first, to be safe. The relay might be under the steering wheel, to the right, under the cover. Operate the wipers, washers etc and listen to hear if you can hear a relay operating. If you put your finger on the relays you might be able to feel one operating. ...
Paul

As the_weaver suggested I found the relay(s) activated with the washer stalk signals.
There are four black mini relays under the dashboard. It is difficult to
tell exactly which one of the four ticks with different washer stalk signals.
May be someone can tell us from wiring diagrams. I took several photos and marked other relay numbers which
I was able to see from pictures.




Elimating possibilities one by one (pipes, pump, fuse and relays) next I had to try new stalk.
I bought stalk from someone who was breaking his Xantia. Since the stalk was still on the scrap car
I had the chance to practice how to remove steering wheel covers and the stalks. After that installation
on mine was very easy. It was a BIG relief to get water to the windscreen and wipers on at the same time.

Possibly a stupid question about this very old thread, but why have I only got two of these small black relays? Are the other two somewhere else?