Glow Plug Woes

evilally · Post by **evilally** » 04 Oct 2009, 20:32

Sigh....it's been a crap day

The 405 was getting hard to start recently, so I'd thought I'd fit a set of new glow plugs this afternoon. First plug that came out left the tip in the cylinder head. I tried getting it out with a pair of long nose pliers. All I managed to do was push it back into the chamber. I can still see it, but it's no longer seated in the glow plug hole.

The way I see it, my options are:

Start the sucker and hope for the best. Some people say the glow plug tip will turn to dust and get blown out. This sounds risky to me.

Take the cylinder head off and retrieve the bit of plug. This isn't something I've got the skills or time for, so I would need to tow it to a garage.

I would certainly appreciate opinions from the resident experts or anyone who has been in the same boat.

Post by **CitroJim** » 04 Oct 2009, 22:04

That's not fair

How much of the tip is in there?

I'd not run the engine but disable the stop solenoid and spin the engine over on the starter. Hopefully, the compression will help dislodge it and gently blow it out. It not risk running the engine as it might leave the engine with some force and do damage or injure you.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 05 Oct 2009, 08:09

would the tip be magnatic, if so you might be able ti get it out through the injector port, remove the said injector and with a small magnet in a stick lift it out, as this openning is larger the the glow plug port,

i would think twice on cranking the engine with debrie in the chamber, but saying thati dont like disturbing a perfectly good head gasket unless absolutly nesecery,

regards malcolm

Post by **CitroJim** » 05 Oct 2009, 08:13

I agree with both your comments Malcolm.

Another (safer) method might be to remove the injector and make up an adaptor so an airline can be used to try and blow the tip out. Just make certain the cylinder in question is at TDC on the compression stroke (i.e. valves closed).

Good luck

evilally · Post by **evilally** » 05 Oct 2009, 11:22

thanks guys

the problem is that the tip has fallen into the pre chamber and is no longer seated in the plug hole. i dont think blowing it out will work.

i have the injector out, but the injector sleeve is stil in situ. the hole in the sleeve is very small. if i take out the sleeve, will i get better access? the sleeve seems very stuck and i couldnt remove it. any ideas on getting it out?

mark21td · Post by **mark21td** » 06 Oct 2009, 14:42

Could you use some bluetack on the end of a stick down the injector hole ?

evilally · Post by **evilally** » 06 Oct 2009, 16:37

Unfortunately, as the injector sleeve is still in situ, I can't. The hole in the sleeve is smaller than the bit of plug. Perhaps if I can get the sleeve out, but I'm not sure how.

Lawrence1973 · Post by **Lawrence1973** » 07 Oct 2009, 08:13

Bummer,

By the sleeve, do you mean the fire washer and the copper looking washer? The copper one often comes off with the injector leaving the fire washer in place.

This can be tapped out gently with a small screw driver - it needs to be replaced for a new one really. That would hopefully give you enough access to use a magnet or whatever....

Hope hat helps

Lawrence

evilally · Post by **evilally** » 07 Oct 2009, 14:40

Lawrence,

I've recovered the copper one ok, haven't noticed a fire washer, will take a closer look this evening. The sleeve I was referring to seems to be pressed into the hole that the injector came out of. Someone else called it a "top hat", which is exactly what it looks like I suppose.

Lawrence1973 · Post by **Lawrence1973** » 07 Oct 2009, 16:34

Ah,
I see. I haven't taken a sleeve out before. The fire washer sits in the sleeve. It's a very thin concave/convex washer about 2cm across.

Out of interest, do you have a bosch injection system?

I have a cylinder head at home....I will see if I can see how the sleeves comes out.

Lawrence

evilally · Post by **evilally** » 07 Oct 2009, 16:46

Cheers Lawrence, much appreciated. I'm just going out now to puzzle it some more.

Lawrence1973 · Post by **Lawrence1973** » 07 Oct 2009, 19:01

Hello again,

Not sure what your name is sorry!

Don't try and get those sleeves out! The metal is incredibly soft and as the injectors clamp them up quite tightly, I reckon it will take quite a bit of force to get them out. I gave one the most gentle tap with a hammer and a screwdriver and it dented the metal.

Here's a thought - If the injector is removed, try to put the hoover onto the Glow plug hole.....with the injector out, there will be sufficient airflow to draw the nuisance out! I guess start with an empty bag and listen out for rattle in the pipe! - might be worth a try........

Also, have you tested the glow plug relay?

I had one of those go on 309 years ago and it presents the same symptoms of course

Allo the best

Lawrence

evilally · Post by **evilally** » 08 Oct 2009, 18:01

Thanks Lawrence,

I'd already had a stab at extracting it, but it looks like a no go, it's stuck in there very well. I've put some scrapes on it, but I don't think it will interfere with the operation of the injector (fingers crossed).

Already tried a hoover, the plug end didn't budge.

I'm reluctant to start it and "see what happens". The engine was/is running great. I think my next move is to get the cylinder head off. Might even fit some recon injectors while I'm at it.

Sooner I get started the sooner I'll be finished I suppose......

Post by **CitroJim** » 08 Oct 2009, 19:13

I think that's sensible. I've (as has Lawrence) seen first hand what a stray bit ofmetal can do in a 1.9TD combustion chamber and it's not pretty

A shame but better safe than sorry and as you say, you can do a few "value addeds" at the same time.

The 405 is not too bad for access as I recall.

evilally · Post by **evilally** » 08 Oct 2009, 19:58

CitroJim wrote:I think that's sensible. I've (as has Lawrence) seen first hand what a stray bit ofmetal can do in a 1.9TD combustion chamber and it's not pretty

A shame but better safe than sorry and as you say, you can do a few "value addeds" at the same time.

The 405 is not too bad for access as I recall.

This will be the most compicated thing I've done to a car, so a good opportunity to learn something anyway. Can you offer any tips Jim? What other "value addeds" do you recommend while I'm there?