Buying a car with no tax / MOT

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 26 Nov 2005, 13:43

If I buy a car with no tax or MOT and drive it home (insured of course) am I likely to get away with it or am I going to get nailed?

I think it very likely that I would get stopped by any anpr system I passed, but would the police officers let me continue on my way home or would they want to stop me and get the car trailered / towed / cubed? Is it worth taking the risk?

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 26 Nov 2005, 14:04

Almost no insurance company will insure a non-mot'd car, so your insurance will most likely be invalid.

In theory, if the car has no MOT, then it cannot be driven on the road unless you are driving it to a local, pre-booked MOT test. Even in this situation, the status of insurance is questionable.

No tax, whilst far less dangerous, and of couse not invalidating your insurance, is also unlawful, as to "keep or use" a car on the road, you must have valid tax.

I have insured and driven untaxed (but MOT'd) cars home in the past, and then retrospectively bought the tax to cover the peroid. Personally, I don't see the harm in this, but a miserable copper might see things differently.

Surely it's worth spending £35 to hire a flatbed trailer to get the car home, and not run the risk. Again, technically you may be breaking the law (if you tow with the Xantia, as it has a max trailer weight of 1200kg, and very few trailers are less than 500-600kg, leaving 600-700kg for the car... just about ok for a 2cv?), but very few coppers understand the legalities of towing. This would be a far lesser risk than driving an un-insured, un-mot'd and un-taxed car on the road. If you were caught like that, you would probably end up with 6-9 points, and a hefty fine.

Also... how far do you have to drive it home.... a couple of miles is a far smaller risk than 300!

ayden · Post by **ayden** » 26 Nov 2005, 15:38

I drove the 305 back home when i bought without tax/insurance and never got caught

and im not saying go out and do it, i would never do it again especially if the journey home takes me along the routes of the M25

if it was only a short distance i would drive it but any further i would do as F&F suggests and hire a trailer or something like that

allmond · Post by **allmond** » 26 Nov 2005, 20:11

OK, maybe I should come out of hiding and admit I'm a Traffic Policeman . . . it doesn't make me a bad person.

Firstly, you can drive a car without tax or MOT to a PREBOOKED MOT - insist the garage writes down your name and the car's registration number. Tell them why, they'll understand. However, you must be insured.

There is nothing in law to say it must be local. There is also nothing to say that the old MOT must have run out! So..........you live in Dorset, but buy a car in Birmingham. It has 6 month's MOT but no VEL (Tax disc.)

Book an MOT in Dorset and drive it to the appointment, Now I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law, but if the garage is two miles beyond your home address and then you change your mind 50 yards short of your house and cancel the MOT.............

You would, of course, then go on and tax it, wouldn't you? But this legal fiction lets you get your new purchase home perfectly legally, apart from the last 50 yards.

OK. What if it hasn't got an MOT. Exactly the same exemptions apply. You can do exactly the same thing. What I would say, however, is that the car must be safe. It must not be in a dangerous condition. This is an offence in its own right (and so it should be) and may give your insurance company pause for thought.

By the way, there are a lot of urban myths about, "not being insured." The bottom line is that once they've taken your money, the law prevents the insurance companies from wriggling out of their MINIMUM LEGAL COMMITMENT. In other words, they'll have to pay out for third party, but fully comp may present difficulties. But then watch them terminate your policy if you've been driving a car in a dangerous condition and refuse to renew. Also, don't forget, they talk to each other!

Also, the law provides for you to drive a car from a failed MOT to a place where it is to be repaired without tax or MOT, provided it is not in a dangerous condition. So, you could drive it home if you are going to repair it there so long as it hasn't failed on something like no brakes at all, for example.

Hope this helps.

Jamie

PS I am very anti speed cameras!

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 26 Nov 2005, 20:18

If both you and the motor look respectable then the chances of getting stopped are almost zero, but you never know.

When you watch those car wars shows on Sky, they always seem to let people with no tax or MOT off with a 7 day wonder (producer ) and are only really interested in the disqualified drivers.......and any copper will tell you that producers are worthless as the people never turn up to produce anyway.........thats why they call them 7 day wonders

Much depends on where you are.......you are right to worry about ANPR. The latest area I've come across to be festooned with this is Barking, where parking tickets are now issued by post by people watching CCTV screens, no need for the warden any more, and dangerously parked, and what they term as 'illegally operated' vehicles removed more or less immediately ( The poster star car for this is an old 405!!! )

Even insurance can be a grey area- sometimes you come across a bargain that can't be passed up, pay cash, and have to shift it home then and there.

I always tend to rely on the standard clause that I am insured to drive any vehicle not my own with the permission of the registered keeper, the basis for this being that its still the previous keepers name on the V5 until it gets to Swansea.

If you can't get hold of a trailer, and have no tow bar, the best thing is to get the seller to drive it for you and give him/her a lift home again!!!

What have you bought????!!!!!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 26 Nov 2005, 21:48

If you look in your local freads or similar paper you may find adverts from specialists with beaver tail trucks and the likes - I've used them in the psat and found they were surprisingly reasonable.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 27 Nov 2005, 08:52

fastandfurryous wrote: a miserable copper might see things differently.

Unfortunately a copper, miserable or otherwise, is unlikely to be involved.

If you are snapped on the road with no valid MOT/VED you will most likely be chased by faceless bureaucrats and meciless computer systems.

allmond wrote:OK, maybe I should come out of hiding and admit I'm a Traffic Policeman . . . it doesn't make me a bad person.

...

PS I am very anti speed cameras!

Th eone good thing about speed camers is they have made us realise how lucky we were when we had traffic police stopping us and giving us a hard time.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 27 Nov 2005, 09:48

Homer wrote:
fastandfurryous wrote: a miserable copper might see things differently.
Unfortunately a copper, miserable or otherwise, is unlikely to be involved.

Surely he could be the one to report you. If he's reasonable, he won't do, but if he feels like it, can report the crime. Granted, it's more likely to be a photo these days, but if you're pulled over by a copper (which seems amazingly rare these days) then your attitude, and his mood are major factors.

Mr. Allmond.... Interesting what you say about the pre-booked MOT. I have heard, from other traffic police officers, EXACTLY the opposite of what you have said: That the MOT must be locally booked (or, "within reason"), and certainly cannot be hundreds of miles away. This being so to prevent people doing exactly what you've described.

And, certainly in every policy I've ever had, my insurance has had a clause in it which effectively says the car must have valid MOT (It's not worded like that, but that's what it means.) On the two occasions I've had to make insurance claims, both insurance companies insisted on having a copy of the MOT from both my car, and the car that was at fault.

On a completely different tone... I have to say I actually miss being pulled over these days.. in my late teens/early twenties I was pulled over all the time, and never had a problem with any traffic police at all. It meant I kept my car legal, and drove (reasonably) sensibly. It's been years since I was last pulled over, and although I won't ever drive a dangerous or illegal vehicle, the risk of being caught is far less, and it makes you wonder....

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 28 Nov 2005, 00:32

What have you bought????!!!!!

I haven't bought anything at all, I was thinking of buying something with a 3 litre V6 in it, one of the best V6s about according to some (Alfa 164). Xantias and XMs with a V6 and a manual gearbox are a bit rare so I'm defecting (keeping the Xantias)!

In the end I decided not to bother, it was on ebay and didn't sell (even at £100 no bids), 200k miles and the number plate in the photo came up as being on a Ford Escort (not very reassuring) and of course it was in Reading (I'm close to Newcastle) has no MOT and no tax either. I'm still looking...

Mr. Allmond.... Interesting what you say about the pre-booked MOT. I have heard, from other traffic police officers, EXACTLY the opposite of what you have said: That the MOT must be locally booked (or, "within reason"), and certainly cannot be hundreds of miles away. This being so to prevent people doing exactly what you've described.

Its the letter of the law that must be satisfied, so if the Road Traffic Act doesn't say "locally" or "reasonable distance" then any competent lawyer would get you off any charge, I'll check the letter of the law before I risk it! This seems to be a can of worms really...

allmond · Post by **allmond** » 28 Nov 2005, 14:03

OK, here's the exemption from the need for an MOT - no mention of "local" etc.

Regulation 6(2) of the Motor Vehicle (Tests) Regulations 1981 states:

Pursuant to section 44(6) the Secretary of State hereby exempts from section 44(1) the use of a vehicle—
(a)
(i) for the purpose of submitting it by previous arrangement for, or bringing it away from, an examination, or
(ii) in the course of an examination, for the purpose of taking it to, or bringing it away from, any place where a part of the examination is to be or, as the case may be, has been, carried out, or of carrying out any part of the examination, the person so using it being either—
(A) an examiner, or a Ministry Inspector or an inspector appointed by a designated council, or
(B) a person acting under the personal direction of an examiner, a Ministry Inspector or a designated Council, or
(iii) where a test certificate is refused on an examination—
(A) for the purpose of delivering it by previous arrangement at, or bringing it away from, a place where work is to be or has been done on it to remedy for a further examination the defects on the ground of which the test certificate was refused; or
(B) for the purpose of delivering it, by towing it, to a place where the vehicle is to be broken up;

I can't at the moment find the exact Act and Section for Vehicle Excise Licences, but the legislation is almost identically worded.

I'll keep looking.

Jamie

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 28 Nov 2005, 14:21

So in theory, if the car had failed an MOT, I could drive it home, to my garage, to fix it

"for the purpose of delivering it by previous arrangement at, or bringing it away from, a place where work is to be or has been done on it to remedy for a further examination the defects on the ground of which the test certificate was refused"

Obviously I would have made the previous arrangement with myself.

allmond · Post by **allmond** » 28 Nov 2005, 17:39

Yep. No problem

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » 30 Nov 2005, 18:32

I suppose most of us have taken chances in the past in the thought that getting caught will not happen to me? (no insurance/mot/tax)
Let him cast the first stone eh?
Imagine if you had a horrible accident, not perhaps your fault, the effect on you and other people could be catastrophic without the insurance cover to help rebuild broken lives.
For the sake of a few bob and a bit extra effort is it not best to do the job properly and get it recovered safely? I bet our Bobby friend has ben witness to some bad decisions made by drivers taking the easy route.
On the speed comments, if you do not want to get nicked drive within the limits, yeah I know its difficult, (I was doing 30k a year).