C5 Particulate Filter -- Replacement?

[ChevronMicky]

Hello there, newbie on this forum, always loved my Citroens, enjoyed reading several of your posts having discovered this site today, and now after some advice please .

At my manual C5 2.2 HDi's last service (37k) the dealer mentioned that the 50k service will cost a packet. Apparently they feel obliged to replace the particulate filter at 50k, routinely, at a cost of over £400 .

Checking my maintenance handbook's schedule, there is no mention of this requirement anywhere. It merely states that the filter should be taken off, cleaned and refitted at this mileage, not replaced with a new one. (There are no fault indications showing. In January 2006, it passed the MOT with an emissions reading of 0.00 !!)

Does anyone have experience of this please?

(a) Is the work critical and what can I expect if I follow my maintenance schedule and decline to have this expensive and unexpected replacement?

(b) Are there independent outlets who could take off and clean this filter, which I imagine is a very much cheaper operation than £400 to replace it? Indeed, can the Citroen dealer do that?

(c) Does this filter get routinely removed and cleaned as part of any normal services other than the 50k one -- I believe the service book says it does? If so, I might just ask for more of the same come the 50k!

(d) Is replacement a difficult, time-consuming job, or an expensive component (i.e. where does the bulk of the £400 go)?

(e) Regarding the Eolys fluid, does that get refilled at every service, or is that a "one off", included as part of this expensive operation?

With no mention of this costly replacement in the maintenance handbook, or when I bought the car brand new in Jan 2003 (despite asking what bills I can expect), I feel like I'm being mugged!

Great car by the way, owned for three years and very happy indeed. Somewhat against expectations, it has been completely and utterly faultless, not even so much as a blown bulb! Not a single thing required under the three year warranty. What a car and what a bargain. I look forward to reading about the experience of others' C5s.

Cheers,
Mick

[ChevronMicky]

Well if you boys ( & girls?) on this forum don't know anything about this filter, and the questions I've raised, then who does?!!!

I can't believe I'm the only mug who's been asked to stump up £400 to replace it

[JohnD]

When I was deciding on which C5 estate to get, I rejected the 2.2 because of the particle filter. Don't know much about them but if you ignore the maintenance, a message will flash up on the screen and the engine will go into 'limp home'. Fluid is topped up at the same time as the filter is cleaned. I've read on other C5 forums that both jobs can be done DIY. If a dealer changes your filter, he'll only change it for one that has been cleaned.

PS - Have a look at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/C5- ... d=68272627
Use the 'search' box for 'particle filter'

[primo]

The fluid is supposed to last up to 80k miles. The filter canister is self-cleaning. Both of these statements are true, to an extent, and depend on the style and type of driving the car been subjected to. DIY is not strictly possible because there is a computer-led rigmarole to go through when changing the stuff, also the additive ECU has to be re-set after fill up. In addition the Eolys fluid is nasty stuff and requires PROPER disposal, i.e it should not be tipped down the nearest drain in the street.

There was a rumour that the Peugeot boss, Jean-Martin Folz, being a bit green - apparently he raises rabbits - gave the go-ahead for this system against the advice of better qualified engineers. When first out, there was a £1000.00 surcharge on the return of the old unit. It's less now but, 'absurd'? Peugeot/Citroen don't appear to know the meaning of the word.

It is an awful system (in my opinion) and will only accelerate the already rapid decline in the resale 'value' of these cars.

[fred1]

Citroen return particle filters to France for cleaning by pressure washing. Apparently, no facilty in the UK to do this !!. Hence they replace with recon/cleaned filter cost £125 plus VAT + Labour.

Also need to fill up the eolys fluid that enables high temp in filter to burn off carbon particles, cost approx £60 for 5 litres. Earlier models Mk1 have nominal 50k mile life later versions 80k and 100k(latest). Later models use a different form of Eolys fluid and the two sorts are NOT interchangeable

Disussion on C5-L forum on Yahoo indicates if you fill up in complete tank fulls (rather than part fills) you can get 60 -70 Kmiles from original 5L of eolys (tank "dosed" every time you fill, thought to be a fixed amount).

Several contributors have successfully diy cleaned their own filter only requires removal from car and then clean with household pressure washer to remove residue build up left by Eolys fluid. Filter is mounted next to cat at front of exhaust. Some have also used detegent but given the warnings by C about what engine oil etc is acceptable if you have PF then I would be concerned about contaminents affecting future operation and stick to clean water.

Replacing Eolys is also apparently faily straightforward. A 5L "kit" is available from Citroen with appropriate pipes bottles etc. Not found a third party source yet.

If you leave the job until computer tells you eolys empty ot filter needs cleaning then you will have to get C dealer to reset messages, otherwise if you do job before then looks like no problem.

Have a look on C5-L (Yahoo forumn)

Regards

Fred

[KevMayer]

Great info.

I need to check if my C5 purchase has had the particle filter cleaned and re oiled.

Cheers,

Kev

[wheeler]

It is an awful system (in my opinion) and will only accelerate the already rapid decline in the resale 'value' of these cars.

in a few years time all diesel vehicles will need to come withe some sort of similar system to meet ever tightening emmision regulations.

[ChevronMicky]

...In addition the Eolys fluid is nasty stuff and requires PROPER disposal, i.e it should not be tipped down the nearest drain in the street.

...It is an awful system (in my opinion) and will only accelerate the already rapid decline in the resale 'value' of these cars.

Interesting, but why would you need to dispose of Eolys fluid? Isn't it just a top-up procedure, akin to filling up with diesel? My understanding is that Eolys is injected into the fuel at intervals and used to raise the exhaust to combustion temperature. I don't see where disposal would come into it.

'Awful system' when it comes to the cost of cleaning the filter I would agree they need to address that. But in terms of cutting down emissions it seems rather good to me. In 39k miles I've yet to see ANY black smoke from my exhaust, irrespective of how much caning I give it. At the first MOT this year, they couldn't achieve a measurable emissions reading, that's how well the system works. The emissions printout states 0.00. That's a quality result for mankind surely?

Incidentally, when I compare how little I paid for this quality car and how much it's now worth, it hasn't depreciated any worse than most other similar family cars. There's so much nonsense talked about depreciation. Do the depreciation figures fondly trotted out by magazines take into account the actual figure paid when purchasing new, or do they use the list price? I suspect the latter. That makes all the difference in the world when you can easily get £5k off list.

You can put a new 1.8 LX C5 on the road for under £11k. I don't care how much that might depreciate, it's a bargain price in my book.

[ChevronMicky]

Many thanks to all contributors -- some very useful help and information there, thanks .

[wheeler]

...In addition the Eolys fluid is nasty stuff and requires PROPER disposal, i.e it should not be tipped down the nearest drain in the street.

...It is an awful system (in my opinion) and will only accelerate the already rapid decline in the resale 'value' of these cars.

Interesting, but why would you need to dispose of Eolys fluid? Isn't it just a top-up procedure, akin to filling up with diesel? My understanding is that Eolys is injected into the fuel at intervals and used to raise the exhaust to combustion temperature. I don't see where disposal would come into it.

The Eolys fluid remains clogged in the filter as it cant be burnt off (hence the reason it needs replaced/exchanged eventually) so when the filters are 'cleaned' you will have Eolys residue to dispose of.

[civvie]

Refering to Fred1's post May 2006 about cleaning the filter. I'm in process of sorting Eolys out and decided to give the filter a clean out at the same time before I get another warning come up. Managed to get the whole unit off the car (filter and cat). Managed to undo three of the four nuts to split the units, but the fourth has decided not to budge, have managed to round off some edges of the nut, so its staying put don't want it shearing. Question, if I use the hose as is would any damage be done to the cat by using water through it, and which is the filter the bit nearest the engine, or the bit nearest back exhaust.

Thanks

Steve

[monkfish]

hi i got my Eolys from ebay paid just under a ton for the 5 literkit including postage

[fred1]

Hi,

I found that my nuts did not want to budge but a dose of plusgas was soon effective (don't bother with WD40 as by comparison it is worse than useless!).

If you have rounded off the nut you could try a 6 sided rather than 12 sided socket or a "flank" drive socket both of which use the flats of the hex rather than the "points". Alternativly a tightly clamped mole wrench is often effective. Also sometimes it is possible to drve on a smaller socket.

I believe the fixing are studs into the filter body with nuts onto them so you may be able to get the stud out even if the nut is fast. The key realy is the plusgas.

John

[fred1]

Hi again,

Sorry I missed your question about the filter. The cat comes first with the filter behind it. So the four studs mount into the filter body flange.

With regard to Eyolis the main agents are as cheap as any one and often cheaper than ebay when postage is taken into account.

The older DPX42 type comes in 1L bottles and 5L kits (much the better value) and the later Eyolis 176 in 1L bottles and 3L kits (£L kit about same price as DPX 5L kit but I think the concentration of cerine is higher, it is definately darker in colour.

I am not sure where all the talk about it being a serious hazard comes from. The warnings on the bottles only refer to the risk from the parafine base material which may cause dry skin (as with any solvent) and that you should not drink it !! The warnings are the same as you get on any boyyle of white spirit you buy at the local DIY.

I would be extreemly cautious about trying to wash out via the cat, they are very sensitive to being poisoned.

I have seen steam cleaning recommended for cleaning the filter instead of pressure washing.

Regards

John

[cachaciero]

Disussion on C5-L forum on Yahoo indicates if you fill up in complete tank fulls (rather than part fills) you can get 60 -70 Kmiles from original 5L of eolys (tank "dosed" every time you fill, thought to be a fixed amount).

If the system has no faults i.e the fuel cap switch is working correctly then the system injects a quantity of EOLYS proportional to the amount of fuel added although there is minimum value for fuel added for this to work correctly which is I believe ten Litres, i.e if you fuel with less than ten litres the system will inject a quantity of EOLYS which corresponds to ten litres above ten litres then the amount of EOLYS added is correct.
Thus provided that you never take on less than ten lires of fuel at a time you should get maximum economy of EOLYS.

cachaciero