C5 - X7 spheres Recharge

[Sloppysod]

Looking through some old posts I came across this from Wed May 08, 2019 8:41 pm

A friend which have a C5 III from 2009 has recently charged the spheres with nitrogen. Before charging, the front spheres were measured and the pressure was 30 and 35 bars, the nominal pressure when the spheres are new is 55 bars. The discharging rate of original spheres is almost 50% over a period of 10 years.

Does anyone know anyone in the UK that offers the service of represurising C5 (X7) spheres?

[Sloppysod]

So, as there was no reply to my earlier post about recharging C5(X7) Spheres i can only assume you can't, therefore:-

• Am i right that you can push down on each corner of the car, it should move about 4"-6" easily, a when let go should return quickly with 1 or 2 rebounds possible.

• Can the diagbox be used to check condition of spheres, if so how.

• Are there any suppliers I should avoid?

Last time I had work carried out on spheres was Pleadies, just inside the North circular, on a CX
Familiale in 1981!

My car is 13 years old getting close to 100,000 miles and I feel not as supple as it was/should be. However it does feel a bit softer when carrying weight.

[myglaren]

They can't be recharged as they are because there is no recharging port in them as there were with earlier spheres but there are some posts describing a procedure to fit recharging valves.
If you don't have the tools to do it yourself it is very likely an expensive undertaking.

Regarding carrying weight, I found that after seriously overloading my C5 estate with loads of MDF, the suspension was much better and remained so for several days. I got into the habit of carrying a lot of heavy tools around in it.

[cit-rotti]

So, as there was no reply to my earlier post about recharging C5(X7) Spheres i can only assume you can't, therefore:-

• Am i right that you can push down on each corner of the car, it should move about 4"-6" easily, a when let go should return quickly with 1 or 2 rebounds possible.

• Can the diagbox be used to check condition of spheres, if so how.

• Are there any suppliers I should avoid?

Last time I had work carried out on spheres was Pleadies, just inside the North circular, on a CX
Familiale in 1981!

My car is 13 years old getting close to 100,000 miles and I feel not as supple as it was/should be. However it does feel a bit softer when carrying weight.

The residual pressure (filling pressure or taring pressure) of a spring ball can only be checked if the ball has been removed.
A special testing device is available from the Citroen dealer for this purpose.
It can be used to check all spring balls (LDS or LHM).
Many hobby mechanics have built such a device themselves.
Of course, original LDS balls can be refilled - the triple diaphragm lasts a very long time.
Replica balls are less suitable because they only have single diaphragms.
A thread must be cut for the filling valve and special tools are required to fill the nitrogen.
Specialised companies or hobby screwdrivers with the necessary experience are available for this.
Greetings Wolfgang

[Kees]

@MYCLAREN:
DON'T say,it's not possible.
A company in Italy provides different parts for refil the sphere's.
I machined mine, and refill them.
Greetings,
Kees.

[Sloppysod]

Cheers Guys, Looks like I will have to do a bit more digging an look into replacing the spheres with OEM, (but then again, I don't think it the car will last another 10 years, so aftermarket may be worth a look).
I too have heard that "they should last longer than earlier vehicles", but as the car has been standing on them for over 13 years, I think they are starting to get tired. Over this time I would expect a fair bit of the nitrogen has passed through the diaphragms by now, resulting a lower internal pressure and a firmer than expected ride.

[aerodynamica]

Hiya Stu, Plieades are still recharging spheres and they are able to do the C5 spheres. I had my 4x corner spheres recharged by post a little under 2 years ago now. I had opted to replace the centre hydractive spheres with aftermarket ones. The center ones were very difficult to remove - the rears were the tightest I've ever experienced and the front center one is impossible to reach.... Actually, now I think of it the rear corner ones required both rear struts out to remove the spheres and they were still so tight that I thought my HGV chain wrench would snap.. It's been 2 years and I'm interested to get the Plieades ones on the sphere tester to see what pressure they have. The car rides like an airbed

[aerodynamica]

Here was some chat from when I got the spheres back from Plieades. viewtopic.php?t=72145 I had agreed to send them and wait for their turn around time (a week or so) because they no longer do their old exchange because they simply do not have enough old spheres (or any Martin had said) so to keep the car on the road I temporarily fitted a pair of Xantia Hydractive spheres to the C5. They were a lot stiffer when the C5 switched to sport mode.

[Sloppysod]

Thanks Graeme, I will have a look to see what can be done.
My spheres are still okay(ish), when doing the bounce test they do move but i think they should move easier. But (I think I am right), it's best ti catch them early, rather than letting the suspension has go hard, as i think having very little gas in a sphere can damage the diaphragms.

Typical! They are 3½ hours from me, and I was about 10 miles from them away last weekend!

[aerodynamica]

Yes Stu, the bounce test would show there is still gas pressure left so that's good.

Only detail is that the C5x7 Hydractive 3+ has the suspension in soft mode when it's 'off', parked, engine off. This is the opposite to the old LHM systems Hydractive 2 and 1 that each go to 'sport' mode by default when the car is turned off. So if it's ok on the bounce test with the C5 it's hard to say what spheres individually might be lower on gas because all 7 spheres are connected in soft mode.

If it drives smoothly, but on occasion gives a real hard jarring from one wheel, it could indicate one corner sphere is bad because these are isolated when it switches to sport setting on occasion.

But really these silver saucer spheres to last for ages.. When tested, all of mine were over 60% still pressurised except for the front center sphere that was way down so it was no surprise that it still rode quite well overall.

[Sloppysod]

Thanks Greame, my car still rides well, just occasionally I will get a feeling that "phew, I felt that!"
I know the saucer spheres should last longer than the older style, but how long? Is near-on 100,000 miles over 13 years a "longer" or short time?
Result of the push down test, engine running, all 4 corners move a few inches and return, (14 stone push down force).
Another thing is when on the suspension is set to the high setting the pump keeps going, which is why I'm thinking the spheres are getting tired. The fluid level is correct.

And that is the reason I hoped I could check the spheres with diagbox.

[lcwin]

This is the push down test to check sphere. Do it after car have stop for more than 30 min. It will have switch to hard mode by then. Don,t open doors or unlock . Push each corner and feel the resistance. Then unlock and open doors, it should go to normal mode. Push again on all 4 sides and note the resistance. Before unlock push test will give you the pressure of each individual corner sphere. After unlock you are testing corner sphere with center sphere. This is a rough test to see if you need to check further with a Pressure gauge.
I have tested all my 15 years old spheres. lt is about 30% down with front center sphere 40% off. I hv recharged them 4 years ago and recently I removed all to check and they hv loss about 10% to 15%.
If pump keep running it could be low LDS or height corrector issues better chk

[Sloppysod]

This is the push down test to check sphere. Do it after car have stop for more than 30 min. It will have switch to hard mode by then. Don,t open doors or unlock . Push each corner and feel the resistance. Then unlock and open doors, it should go to normal mode. Push again on all 4 sides and note the resistance. Before unlock push test will give you the pressure of each individual corner sphere. After unlock you are testing corner sphere with center sphere. This is a rough test to see if you need to check further with a Pressure gauge.
I have tested all my 15 years old spheres. lt is about 30% down with front center sphere 40% off. I hv recharged them 4 years ago and recently I removed all to check and they hv loss about 10% to 15%.
If pump keep running it could be low LDS or height corrector issues better chk

Thanks, I understand the idea, I always thought it is an engine running test, but your suggestion, procedure makes sense. I will give it a go soon.
Your 15 year old spheres, are they the old type or newer triple diaphragm type?

[aerodynamica]

Thanks Greame, my car still rides well, just occasionally I will get a feeling that "phew, I felt that!"
I know the saucer spheres should last longer than the older style, but how long? Is near-on 100,000 miles over 13 years a "longer" or short time?
Result of the push down test, engine running, all 4 corners move a few inches and return, (14 stone push down force).
Another thing is when on the suspension is set to the high setting the pump keeps going, which is why I'm thinking the spheres are getting tired. The fluid level is correct.

And that is the reason I hoped I could check the spheres with diagbox.

Hi Stu, my C5 does the same thing on high setting - pump keeps running until the protection timer kicks in. I also never get the message on the dash saying it reached high. It brings the message for mid high, normal and low. I hooked it up to the lexia diag on the laptop and found that the number of 'steps' the system uses to measure the height for 'high' position is never reached (on the front sensor reading). I cant recall the exact numbers but say the high setting is 175 steps and it shows the height increasing from normal or other to high and you can watch the step count increase from say, 160 going upwards as it raises, it is meant to stop at high when it gets to 175 but mine only ever gets to 174 and the pump keeps running. I kind of thought that the suspension was physically topping out at high but that the height sensors were only showing as near as almost high at 174 steps not 175.

This was nearly 2 years ago and it's still the same . Fitted a brand new front height sensor too and still the same. Never did get to the bottom of it

[Sloppysod]

I'm still digging out information regarding my spheres, still swaying between getting OEM or aftermarket ones, or getting some/all of mine recharged.

However, during my 'digging' I have found a coupe of Youtube videos showing that the removed sphere rattles, why? whats likely to be rattling?



Reasons for my pondering.
The OEM spheres are not available at the moment, if they will ever be in the future you will need a crystal sphere to know that one.
The membrane in an aftermarket sphere may be of an inferior quality of different design.
I may be recharging a sphere with a damaged membrane or one where the membrane only lasts a short while.