Electric Cars:what's available?

[GiveMeABreak]

It's a very good price and getting more near the acceptable mark for EVs, but still have a long way to go. The truth is likely that most EV cars will be worthless in 8 -10 years when the battery is end of life with replacements costing half the price of a new car, unless you factor in paying a battery lease fee each month that then puts the costs way up!

Citroen currently state:
"The lithium-ion battery packs themselves are covered for eight years and 100,000 miles for extra peace of mind. This guarantees at least 70% charging capacity for that time, with cost-free repairs and replacements if the capacity falls below the mark. As an added benefit, roadside assistance is included as part of the package".

... but as said, going in the right direction.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Speaking from my own experience, maybe I've just been fortunate. I have now a have an 8 year-old car with an 8 year old battery. 11 out of 12 bars Battery state of health remain, some way off car-worthlessness Armageddon.

Even if that happened today and let's assume the car would be worth literally £0.00, total cost of ownership over the last 4 years and 40,000 miles would have would have amounted to £5,000-ish net after the fuel savings I have banked. All quite reasonable. No plans to change it, no regrets, quite the opposite totally enjoy electric motoring.

All on Bargain Basement Electric viewtopic.php?t=63910

Neil

[Skull]

Speaking from my own experience, ..... some way off car-worthlessness Armageddon.....

Neil

Neil
Good to see your choice is/has paid off for you, I personally don't do the mileage to warrant EV at the moment, the maths is working out for you any idea what your Leaf is worth today or is it on that link

[NewcastleFalcon]

Speaking from my own experience, ..... some way off car-worthlessness Armageddon.....

Neil

Neil
Good to see your choice is/has paid off for you, I personally don't do the mileage to warrant EV at the moment, the maths is working out for you any idea what your Leaf is worth today or is it on that link

I would say it’s pretty much worth £5,000 to me, and the longer I keep it the more the total cost of ownership works in my favour. * Haven’t looked at the usual suspect websites/ auctions to see what they are fetching now. Condition, miles, battery state of health all come into play. Many Leafs of the same age as mine will have done a lot less miles, and may even provide an opportunity for those who want to give it a go to acquire a second car with plenty of life left in it, which has been more lightly used.

Neil

*PS Not far out...just done it. Here

viewtopic.php?p=782625#p782625

[Skull]

Neil

[ChrisRobin]

@Gibbo2286
I saw that too makes no sense, as the car was on a lift, the battery was on the battery bed below it after being removed, so it would not be connect to the car in any way that's impossible, there is also no way to charge them once out of the vehicle, we have done hundreds easily of these type of jobs across Skoda, VW, Seat and Audi.

The only thing we can think of is the quarantine time may not of been adhered to fully, if a vehicle comes in with a battery fault it has to be put into a quarantine zone for 2 weeks and monitored every day to see if core temp is changing, if it is going up we have a real problem, if after 2 weeks it is still stable and not risen we can get the vehicle in and work on it, make us wonder if the customer was pushing to get his car back for Christmas, so dealership have thought yes we will sort it out it'll be ok and it has bitten them that's the only thing we can think of or the tech working on it didn't do the check list before starting work on it, This is what I have been saying about EV's once they reach a certain core temp depends on battery size/output it IS going on fire you wont stop it, this battery was isolated from the car and still went up it blew air suspension parts across the W/Shop, melted the tyres and the rear spoiler on the car next to it took paint off the roof girder above it down to the metal, destroyed the roof panels above, took paint off the metal side panels of the garage outer wall and the back of the GT looks like it has just melted and gone droopy on the ramp, and an awful lot of smoke damage to the rest of the cars on ramps, thank fully not one of our dealerships. BUT we will still have the renewed pressure of EV safety and loads of Company online course to complete again no doubt.

[CitroJim]

Gosh, that's scary...

[ChrisRobin]

Guidance for us now, is even if they have had a minor impact it's quarantined for 2 weeks and monitored before we bring it inside to work on. Makes you wonder as the years pass by and the owners no longer want to use the pricey dealerships what will happen then, I think this is when we will see the true danger of EV's, at present they are all quite new and the tech on them is not as robust as it should be.

[CitroJim]

And when unskilled people try to fix them in years to come... It doesn't bear thinking about...

[ChrisRobin]

When you think all the battery cells and the two complete batteries have have booked out on VAG group EV vehicles each one has a coolant cap seal, akin to those you have on electric meters, this is there to stop the owner putting coolant into it, this has been done on purpose, if it is losing coolant it has a problem, the coolant keeps the batteries cool, so any leak means a reduction in fluid or worse an air lock, how many of those will be cut off and left off and filled with Halfords premix antifreeze, just as we do now with out ICE cars, I have driven before now with no coolant cap on to keep the pressure off so I don't lose to much water until I can fix it, and how many of us have filled up with coolant and ended up with an unknown air lock until you drive and watch your engine temp going up and up, on an EV that would end it, overheated battery = high core temp = FIRE, how many back street garages will just fill them up and run them, ours are full of electro valves that open at different times allowing coolant around, we have a specific coolant filler now for EV's that forces coolant through it whilst automatically opening the valves so it has no chance on an air lock, I would say 7 to 10 years time we will start seeing the real problems EV's will cause when they reach the "affordable" used car stage.

[Gibbo2286]

In the meantime though the battery chemistry is changing so the fire problem is negated, it is in any case exaggerated by the petrol heads making mischief.

[ChrisRobin]

True I suppose, however how many 12v batteries have gone on fire when removed from an ICE vehicle? as this GT battery was, Fire service have openly said they can put out an ICE fire but struggle with EV fires and they have to keep monitoring them after for core temp they don't for an ICE fire and they DO burn a lot hotter than ICE vehicles, Fire service have openly said that also. You only have to look at the way E scooters are going that is last thing you want to start happening to these as you are not just dealing with one small cell, bad/unaffordable maintenance can cause that to happen.
To me I am not a great fan of EV as I feel travel wise it is a step backwards, we have gone from horse and carriage were you stopped over night in Inns to feed and rest your horses as you travel across the UK, to ICE, where yo stop for what max 10mins to pump fuel into you car and carry across the UK, to EV where you now stop for what 30mins if you are lucky to recharge provided you can find a fast charger that works, even the motorway ones charge slower if there is a vehicle on the other charge point you are on. I don't think they quite fit the way the population uses cars, I notice also a lot of rental properties for holidays are no longer offering charge points you have to go find a public one due to the cost of electricity, So I can't say I am a big fan yet possibly because I see a lot of them in with expensive warranty repairs. The worst one is charge socket, which is getting harder to claim for as owners are wiggling the plug in and out which in turns opens the pins slightly, this causes a bit of resistance, car charges slower and eventually the onboard charge monitoring software throws up an warning and stops it charging, you have to change the car side, which comes as a plug and all the HV wiring attached cost £600 upwards dependant on model plus fitment which is a full 8 hours, I think there is a lot of work to do to them to make them more robust. Did you read about the Tessler owner a few months back took his Tessler out in the rain to a restaurant, when he had finished his meal he left, but the Tessler refused to start, it was recovered to the dealer who repaired it and charged him £10k for the repair as it wasn't covered by warranty, as he had taken it out and got it wet. I think there is a lot of work needs doing to them before they become the staple diet of our driving needs and I do feel they will become a luxury like cars where in the 30's when only a few could actually afford them and run them.

[myglaren]

A "Goupil" apparently. Swiped from autoshite.

[Gibbo2286]

A "Goupil" apparently. Swiped from autoshite.

Part of the Polaris Group apparently, pretty well order anything you need in the way of bodies.

[ChrisRobin]

This is what Audi say about Battery life.
The lifespan depends on how the battery is used and the conditions it is used in.

All Audi electric car batteries come with an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty, whichever comes first.

The warranty for the high-voltage battery shall be void if any defects have resulted from improper use, handling or maintenance of the battery.
(interesting this one as it covers Constant fast charging, charging when not needed over the 50% mark counts as not needed, DC charging up to 80% only, driving to fast over heats the battery or the lack of a coolant bottle seal tag, non franchised work on the cooling system, according to our warranty guy)

So the warranty sounds good but there seems to be lots of "get out" clauses for the manufacturer, but I suppose the battery is a big old unit and VERY expensive, so any get out they will use as usual