Peugeot 308 alternator not charging?

[xantia_v6]

As mentioned elsewhere, I have had issues with our 308CC not charging the battery properly. The alternator does produce current to balance the load, but the output voltage would not rise over 12.8V. usually hovering around 12.5V.

I have tried fitting a second hand alternator from a Mini Cooper with a similar Prince engine, and it is a little better, charging up to about 13.8V, but this is still not enough to charge a nearly flat battery.

I then saw this video which reports that similar symptoms on a 208 are fixed by disconnecting the alternator control wire, or (preferably) getting a software update (of unknown ECU) from a Peugeot dealer:



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There are a couple of internet posts vaguely referring to a TSB for this problem, e.g. https://www.208ownersclub.co.uk/threads ... -ecu.6657/ but no specific reference to a TSB, nor any reference that the same issue affects 308s.

However I tried disconnecting the control wire on my alternator, and the output increased to about 14.1V.

Is anyone able to track down the TSB? BTW my VIN is VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

[xantia_v6]

I have done some more experimentation.

I refitted the original alternator to the car and with the control connection unplugged, it behaved just the same as the Mini alternator, charging at about 14.1V.
I decided to plug in the control connector, but on a whim, inserted the plug while the engine was running, and surprisingly, the charging voltage remained at 14.1V. So the "fault" has cured itself!

I then had a look around in Diagbox (I did not find the battery monitoring parameters, but I know they are there somewhere).
I did find however that the BSI has a (software?) fault that causes it to overestimate the battery voltage by about 350mV, so when the battery voltage is 12.8V, the BSI reports 13.1V, and when the battery voltage is actually 14.1V, the BSI reports 14.4V and presumably controls the alternator according to that.

So I would not be surprised if the mythical TSB and firmware update is to fix the BSI voltage calibration.

[GiveMeABreak]

The battery info may be under the Battery Charge Status Unit, which is where the battery type is configured and should be displayed under the list of ECUs after a Global Test, or under live tests.

I can's see any relevant TSBs listed, only those that are for noises or with other fault codes you haven't reported Mike.

[xantia_v6]

I found that the TSB title is apparently: 1CWA-B3FW012FQ0-The vehicle will not st...pdf The rest of the link is behand a paywall.

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so this document is as follows - it just states the same thing - ECU update Mike:

REFERENCE: B3FW012FQ0
DATE: 09/04/2018
VERSION: 1

VEHICLES AFFECTED: C3 PICASSO AND DV6FD FAP DIESEL AND BVM5 AND GEARBOX BE4R UNTIL RPO 14586.

CUSTOMER SYMPTOM: THE VEHICLE WILL NOT START - ANCILLARIES BATTERY DISCHARGED - WITH OR WITHOUT LIGHTING OF THE ANCILLARIES BATTERY WARNING LAMP

CAUSE: ENGINE MANAGEMENT ECU SOFTWARE

TECHNICAL OVERVIEW (CONDITION IN WHICH FAULT APPEARS)
Not applicable

2. REPAIR PROCEDURE
Downloading of the engine management ECU software.
2.1. Downloading
CAUTION: The diagnostic tool must be at the latest update version available on the remote update server
Download the latest engine management ECU software present on the aftersales server.

2.2. Labour time
C3 PICASSO
Invoicing time : 0,40H.
Operation code : 9R03RP00.
Cause code : 1612.

3. PRODUCTION SOLUTION

C3 PICASSO UNTIL RPO 14586 AND GEARBOX BE4R AND BVM5 AND DV6FD FAP DIESEL
From RPO number 14587: Modification of the engine management ECU software.

N.B.: Do not raise any further quality reports (CRI) to indicate an incident occurring on a vehicle manufactured before the production modification ; On the other hand, send a quality report (CRI) for all cases of recurring problems after application of this information or for all incidents occurring on a vehicle manufactured after the production solution.

[xantia_v6]

Thanks for that. Not directly applicable, but there seem to be other affected vehicles/engines from posts on the internet.

Interesting that it is the engine ECU, not the BSI that requires updating. Do you have access to the current version number for the engine software for our car? It was updated in a recall in 2017, and since then Diagbox (7.6.5). does not recognise the ECU type.

I found that the fault has returned to our car, so I have unplugged the LIN bus connector to the alternator again, so that the battery does not go flat, but this seems to trigger "Engine Fault Repair Needed".

Relative to a 208 with the same fault I found a comment somewhere:

this is caused by an engine software fault. There is a recall campaign HNZ to correct this and also a TSB. The software should be equal to or higher than 9692530380, version 46, edition 0207. A quick check is to disconnect the alternator connector, if charging returns but LIN codes are set, the alternator and LIN network are good and the fault is software. I have seen loads of these as a Peugeot MT.

I think that this is referring to a 1.2 engine, so the version number is likely to be different for a 1.6 THP engine.

[GiveMeABreak]

Unfortunately the only way I'm aware of to ascertain the software version is directly from the ECU via Diagbox. Issues reading the engine ECU are generally either diagnostic tool hardware or the Diagbox software is too old to recognise the later software (old database).

[wheeler]

Interesting that it is the engine ECU, not the BSI that requires updating. Do you have access to the current version number for the engine software for our car? It was updated in a recall in 2017, and since then Diagbox (7.6.5). does not recognise the ECU type.

The charging on this car is controlled by the ECU not the BSI, The IND wire on the alternator is connected directly to the injection ECU.
This recall update on your engine ECU was HEE, Cant see what HEE was for as its now been 'archived'.

The HNZ recall was only for the 208 & the 2008, this was indeed for a charging issue.
On affected vehicles, a possible non-compliance in the engine control unit software might
disrupt battery charging.

[xantia_v6]

Thanks!

I am reluctant to approach the local Stellantis dealer due to previous dishonest statements by their service manager.

In a few weeks I may be able to take the car to the next nearest dealership, a 5 hour drive from home.

I wonder if the car can be configured to not having a piloted alternator, to eliminate the LIN bus error codes?

[xantia_v6]

Time for an update...

I called the local dealer and spoke with a technician who look up the car and assured me that there was no software update available for the engine. He seemed a bit sceptical of the diagnosis I had done, but offered to diagnose the car. I was a bit sceptical of his ability to diagnose.

I called an independent garage that does a lot of work for ex-customers of the dealer and he was familiar with the charging problem, but said that only the dealer could fix it by downloading new software to the ECU. He said that he had tried buying a diagnostics token for Diagbox, but that the token system is only provided in the EU and UK because government regulation demands it, and outside of that area, only Stellantis dealers can download ECU software.

I also called the more distant dealer and the service manager there was aware of the problem but unsure whether there was an update available. I am expecting a call back net week.

Meanwhile, I got itchy fingers and decided to test the theory that DIY ECU programming is impossible on this side of the world and decided to try.
My normal Diagbox PC (other than being very old and running Windows XP very slowly) runs diagbox v7.6.2 and I did not want to upgrade it or risk breaking the installation. So I configured a VPN to a country where tokens are supported, and created a new servicebox account with details of an address in that country of the VPN. UK and EU residents would not need a VPN.
I found a spare SSD drive, fitted it to a relatively modern PC and made a clean install of Windows 10 (64 bit), followed by an install of the latest version of Diagbox. The Diagbox software is available to download from Servicebox after you have logged in and bought a diagnostic token (44€). Don't attempt to use Windows 10 32 bit, it can create a world of pain with device driver compatibility.

The next test was to see if connected Diagbox would complain about my clone VCI. It did not.

So I connected it up to the car, linked the diagnostic token (which last 7 days for 1 vehicle) to the diagnostic session and interrogated various ECUs while becoming familiar with the "improvements" in the V9 Diagbox interface. Then I found the software downloading page for the engine ECU, clicked the mouse a few times and... it started downloading software. At the end of the process it offers to erase fault codes for all ECUs, which it did.

The Engine ECU software version has incremented. It remains to be seen whether the original fault has been fixed. Everything else seems OK.

[RichardW]

Interesting work Mike. Hope it fixes the issue!

[CitroJim]

Most interesting Mike, fingers crossed...

[Huskyxantia]

Subbed and following with interest & biting my nails too.

[GiveMeABreak]

Very brave of you Mike and you seemed to have avoided a potential b*ll ache on that episode. Fingers crossed too that you have at least ruled that out of the equation.

[xantia_v6]

I took the car out for a good run yesterday, with a voltmeter monitoring the battery, and the voltage was a rock-steady 12.95 volts, which is pretty much where we started. On the positive side, the throttle response seems to have been improved.

The alternator is working because it exactly balances the load. The voltage does not budge with all electrical items running, and the Engine ECU calculates the load as 80A (A/C, Lights, HRW, Heated seats etc.)

This morning the battery struggled to start the engine.

So I disconnected the battery to give it a long slow charge. I had to reconnect the battery to move the car because some tradespeople unexpectedly turned up. Magically the alternator is now charging at 14.5V !!!

Maybe it needed a BSI reset after updating the ECU ???

I will take the car for another run this afternoon to see how it behaves.