Bosch Pump body armour

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KennyW
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Bosch Pump body armour

Post by KennyW »

Hi there,

Message for Lawrence 1973

I have a Citroen with the Bosch as3 Vp20 pump with the Body aromour and Citorjim has informed me you have a similair pump. My current problem is removing the small hollow pin on the armour above the stop solenoid.

Jim suggests you have removed this in the past and maybe able to give me a tip or 2.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
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Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Lawrence1973
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tricky pins

Post by Lawrence1973 »

Hello Kenny,

Sorry for the delay.

That's right, I encountered one of these. It was only the second pump I de- armoured and both pumps had slightly different armour (just to make life interesting)

I assume you have the hardened steel bolt out that's right next to one of the outlet unions? If not I would put your attention into that first, it's the most brutal part of the job and I have managed it on both occasions with Jim's run a hammer drill backwards technique.

If you are there and all the other bolts are drilled out then it's just the roll pin as you rightly say. The armour rocks around as if it's going to come off but don't let it tempt you to force it!

What I did was, using a tough self tapping screw that fits the hole in the role pin perfectly, wind it in as far as you can or until the thread has bitten into the pin. Then put some mole grips on the screw head and hammer it out......works a treat but it's fiddley to get the screw in there as there is limited space. If the pump is off the engine it would of course be a lot easier.

Let me know if you need any more help

Lawrence
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Post by CitroJim »

Lawrence, thanks for helping Kenny out :D Brilliant stuff. I've never seen this type of armour :(
Jim

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Post by Lawrence1973 »

No worries Jim,

This armour is quite different to the first one I did. There are nearly half the bolts to drill out so I guess they rely on the roll pin being a real stumbling block.

I must arrange a visit....I think the 406 isn't right.

Lawrence
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KennyW
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x 132

Post by KennyW »

Message for Lawrence and Jim,

Success today :D . The pin was removed. the method i used was not the best but eventually worked. I would agree with the method you employed Lawrence as the best othewise the pin disappears up the hole hence all my problems.

Once my armour was removed, it was simple case of removing the plastic cover over the stop solenoid and change it over.

Interestingly enough,the immobiliser is fitted into the body armour and NOT bolted on.

Again it would be interesting to know if there were any further variations to the pump body armour on younger cars.

Kenny

P.S. It only took me 2 hours to rebuild the car but darkness has fallen so will leave it until the morning It sounds like a song this :!: \:D/
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Lawrence1973
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Post by Lawrence1973 »

Well done Kenny,

How did you manage it in the end then?

The immobiliser module is built into the armour isn't it. Just one thing worth checking......when i eventually got the pin out and the armour off I noticed that the full load adjustment screw on the pump was loose. The lock nut had undone slightly and it was only a tiny amount. I know this is a very sensitive adjustment.

I have got some photos of the job but sadly not the pin part!

Nice one

Lawrence
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Post by CitroJim »

Lawrence1973 wrote:I must arrange a visit....I think the 406 isn't right.
In what way Lawrence? No problem in coming over but right now I'm up to my eyeballs in autoboxes :twisted:
Jim

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Post by KennyW »

Hi Lawrence,

I slowly reduced the size of the pin and it slipped far enough out for it to be extracted.

After the rebuild I tried to start her this morning and she is showing the same problems as before :cry:

Will attempt to push start her as I have done in the past and see what happens :!:

I've just spoke to the guys who supplied me the stop solenoid and they have a stock of security bolts in case I have to remove it again. :lol:
He suggested a fuel stravation problem as if the immobiliser was not working it would not start at all.

Any thoughts from you Lawrence would be appreciated I have asked on the citroen section and all the usual problems were suggested which i have checked.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Lawrence1973
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Post by Lawrence1973 »

Ok Kenny, I'll have a look.

Did you replace the whole pump then? wish I'd known, I have a de armoured one for sale!

Maybe I'll reply on the other thread if that's better.

Lawrence
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Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Post by KennyW »

Good Evening Lawrence,

It is the original pump for my car. I had a friend who is time served mechanic across earlier this evening and we checked the fuel into the pump fine.

We checked the voltage through black plug which supplies the immobiliser at the connector at the pump 12 volts.

We checked the old solenoid use a spare battery i have and it operated correctly

We cracked open the fuel unions into the injectors nothing. we checked the fuel out of one of the unions leading to the injectors nothing therefore my conclusion is there is problem within the pump.

Prior to doing this work when i got the engine started the pump ran fine.

I think its time for an overhaul of the pump.

Your thoughts on the problem would be appreciated.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Lawrence1973
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Joined: 16 Feb 2009, 22:19
Location: Hertfordshire
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Post by Lawrence1973 »

Hello Kenny,

Wow, quite a long thread! sounds like a swine.....

Is she still doing exactly the same thing? before the armour+immobiliser were taken off?Long turning and finally starts? If so when she does finally go, is there a knocking that eventually clears? This supposedly indicates diesel flooded chambers (so air/fuel can be ruled out)

1.Did you rule out the glow plug system in the end? -relay, circuit, wiring and all?

2.Does your pump have a clear diesel feed pipe? (useful to monitor air in the system)

3.If you prime the system, how many squeezes does it take for the bulb to go solid?

4.Have a close look at the base of the throttle lever on the pump, the return pipes and the fuel filter housing WHILST pumping the primer.

5.How have you wired up the stop solenoid now? I had some fun and games with this and had opt for a slightly odd way.

I had a 405 run like this and it turned out to be air in the system.Slow air leaks and glow plugs kind of present the same symptoms unfortunately.

Hope this helps a bit but it seems like you've had the best of the best helping you on this one! Sorry if it's stuff you've already tried.

Lawrence
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Post by Lawrence1973 »

Jim,

I was going to write a separate thread, the old girl is running ok but if the revs drop below a certain point she's gutless......a naturally aspirated has more power at those revs!

Also when cold. the revs jerk for about 5 secs or so.

Enjoy your auto's!

Lawrence
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KennyW
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Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Post by KennyW »

Hi Lawrence,

I have done the glow plug checks, air in fuel line etc and they seem fine.

I don't want to risk trying to push start her in case it doesn't start and I can't get her back to the driveway.

After turning her over for 20 odd turns and she started there was no problems whatsoever she ran as per normal.

What was your alternative wiring to the stop solenoid :?: as this maybe my approach.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Lawrence1973
Posts: 100
Joined: 16 Feb 2009, 22:19
Location: Hertfordshire
My Cars:

Post by Lawrence1973 »

Good evening to you too Kenny,

Just read your new info.

That's so odd that it would suddenly stop working.....did the pump come off? I assume so to do the armour?

Did the brown plug get plugged in ok? the one to the base of the pump...I think this is the electronic side of the pump linked to the ECU.

Jim traced the wiring for me for my pump when I removed the immobiliser and it didn't work - the engine wouldn't start even though it was traced correctly as the stop solenoid cable. I had to chop and connect a cable into the timing cable (Brown plug cable) and then connect that to the SS. I know this sounds mad but it worked.

I would say to make sure, run a piece of wire to the solenoid from the battery and then try to start the engine.

Hope this helps, if it's not clear let me know.

Lawrence

:wink:
Lawrence1973
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Post by Lawrence1973 »

Ah so it does actually start eventually?
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