Citroen C5 driveshaft seals

[wurlycorner]

Sunday afternoon I set about changing the driveshafts on my C5.
I'd ordered new seals of course. The book of lies lived up to its usual name in that regard... 'prise out the old seals with a screw driver and replace' (or words to that effect). So method of replacement just like a normal gearbox seal then.

Errr, no.
So on the passenger side you have to remove a cover plate to expose the final drive bearing, because the seal mounts in from behind. Awkward access, but not the end of the world. It does however mean that you need some liquid gasket sealant to re-seal the cover plate to the gearbox, which of course you don't have to hand because it hadn't told you you needed that, because as usual with modern Haynes manuals, they haven't actually bothered doing the job they've just used generic text
EDIT: Apparently you're supposed to replace the whole plate with the seal? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-PEUGE ... 1057112760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What a ridiculous unnecessary waste!

Anyway, that wasn't the biggest arse about it all. The biggest pain is the drivers side one.
The seal looked different on the outside, because it had an outer captive plastic ring that rotates. I prized this out and then saw what looked like an ordinary oil seal behind, so set about prising that out. Cue satisfying 'pop'

Oh, hang on... What the hell is this?

Been sent the wrong new seal?
Definitely doesn't fit - too loose in the bore;


But no, on closer inspection, what had popped out of the end of the box is a small metal insert, which has the seal inside it.
This is it with the plastic ring removed (the white bit)

Looks like there's a normal type oil seal then inside the metal outer insert and it looks like the diameter of that matches the new seal so all should be well and I set about knocking that out.

What then happened was that another metal sleeve (that had been hiding inside the outer metal sleeve) knocked out;


This sleeve is what the plastic ring had been retained in and rotated inside, against the back of the oil seal.

Try as I might (I have knocked the crap out of it with a suitably sized socket, both directions) I can't get the old oil seal to shift in the metal insert AT ALL - you can see in the pics all I've succeeded in doing is bending the inside of the oil seal!

I'm on the verge of pointing a blow torch at the insert to try and expand that and/or burn away the plastic on the old seal.
Before I do that though, I just can't get my head round this design.

Anyone else come across this? Is it 'right'?

[Gibbo2286]

You have the wrong seal, there are two types. Sorry I can't remember the part number but I think it's the same as the Relay one but don't take my word for it.

[wurlycorner]

So you suggesting the replacement should come like the complete larger unit? (i.e. with metal outer case).

I've been trying to check on service.citroen but keep getting an error message when I try to log on

[Gibbo2286]

Yes it comes as you say all in one piece, I think the Citroen parts list only gives the one you already have, iirc I had to take the old one to the local factors to get a match. My 2001 C5 HDI had the same seal as the one you have but my 2004 C5 has the bigger one

There's a supplier here who seems to have the correct part but I suggest you double check.

The difference seems to be the gearbox, the early one had the reverse position to the right and back, the later one has the reverse to the left and forward. http://www.eurocarcare.net/gearbox/ecc3 ... right.html

[citronut]

here are part No.'s and dimensions of the both the diff/drive shaft outlet oil seals for a MK1 2.0 HDI C5,

3125 18
DIFFERENTIAL BEARING
38 X 63 - 17
- GEARBOX BE4R

3121 44
RP 16 088 167 80
GEAR-BOX SEAL
40X58-10
- GEARBOX BE4R

most strange

all the PSA clutch's/drive shafts i have done/had out ( even on C5's ), i have never had to remove something obscuring a diff seal, with the box in situe or on the floor,

and have also never had any sort of adapter/spacer come out from between a diff seal and diff housing,

and im sure there is only one seal size for each side of the diff on most of the Cit/Pug range

[Gibbo2286]

Not so Citro, there are certainly two, I've done them both, the 2004 one has the left seal inside a cast housing held on with four bolts.

[citronut]

Not so Citro, there are certainly two, I've done them both, the 2004 one has the left seal inside a cast housing held on with four bolts.

ok Mr Gibbo

i obviously aint seen that type yet,

although i could not see it on service citroen under MK1 C5 either,

maybe if Mr wurlycorner sends me the last 8 digits of his chassis/VIN No. i could see for myself

[wurlycorner]

Not so Citro, there are certainly two, I've done them both, the 2004 one has the left seal inside a cast housing held on with four bolts.

Which confuses matters slightly further then, cause mine is an 01 with reverse on the back and right (so an early box?)


Thanks for the extra info, will look into it some more

[RichardW]

Looks like only the BE4R box fitted to 90 BHP HDi engines has the 'older' push in type. All the ML boxes have the one behind the cover plate and the other one with the metal insert. The LH one is the same for both boxes, the RH one for the ML boxes appears to be this one

[BX]

Some of the seals have the plastic gizmo some dont. Its main function seems to be to centralise the shaft on the way back in. Get a caliper. Measure the diameter in the box. Measure the shaft diameter at the appropriate point. Go to your local bearing supplier and get the seal.

[Gibbo2286]

Looks like only the BE4R box fitted to 90 BHP HDi engines has the 'older' push in type. All the ML boxes have the one behind the cover plate and the other one with the metal insert. The LH one is the same for both boxes, the RH one for the ML boxes appears to be this one

I get the feeling Richard that they fitted whatever was available on the assembly line at the time they needed it, my early C5 2.0L HDI 110 had the BE4 box and the later 2.0L HDI 110 had the ML5T

[wurlycorner]

Actually, I also forgot to mention...
The passenger driveshaft (i.e. the short one without the intermediate bearing) didn't have a circlip on the end of it either. I was expecting it to and there is a groove on the shaft for it.
Anyone had them with or without?

[RichardW]

No circlip on the inboard end if that is what you mean?

[citronut]

No circlip on the inboard end if that is what you mean?

i second this

[wurlycorner]

Yep, no circlip on the inboard end.
The long shaft doesn't need one on account of the half shaft bearing, but for the short one I'd expect it to have a circlip to hold it into the diff.
Maybe they don't bother on modern cars though?