Trying To Avoid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

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BigBadBob
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Trying To Avoid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by BigBadBob »

I've recently purchased a C5 1.6HDI Estate with 116000 miles. It has a perfect main dealer service history with each service being carried out exactly to the 12000 mile schedule (up to 108K). It's running well and I'm generally very pleased, but am concerned about the prevalenece of turbo failures.
From my searches, it appears to be almost always associated with blockage in the turbo oil supply pipe due to sludgy/sooty/oxidised/ oil. This engine oil apparently blackens in this engine very quickly even when well serviced. There are a number of other known reasons or contributory factors that I have identified (in no particular order).
1) The EGR valve - people who have blanked them off say that this alone brings about clean engine oil. (I have seen this from 3 separate sources, and apparently doesn't give error codes on the C5).
2) People failing to adhere to the service intervals. (not relevant in my case, although moving forward I shall use Total Quartz Ineo every 6 to 8000 miles.)
3) Faulty injectors/seals can contribute to sooty oil. Evidently sometimes there is a visible leak, which I can check for periodically, but if the problem occurs due to the spray pattern, that will not be so obvious. Perhaps I should use some fuel additive once a year?

As I like the car and would like to get another 60000 miles over the next 3 to 4 years I am proposing to get my mechanic to do some pre-emptive work to try and avoid having a turbo failure (which can be pretty disastrous by some accounts).
1) I am going to ask him to drop the sump and clean out any sludge in the sump and ensure the oil pickup/strainer is clean. (is this a lot of work or relatively easy?)
2) I am going to get him to replace the turbo oil supply pipe. Should I get him to remove the gauze filter?
3) Fit an EGR blanking plate (cost = £4)
4) regular oil changes.
Is this realistically going to get me another 60000 miles or should I just move on asap to a different car.
If it is this easy, why is this not done more frequently?
Your thoughts and comments will be much appreciated.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by citroenxm »

I would have thought halfing the oil change schedule from the 12k to 6k oil changes will go a long way to help preventing and oil issues.. an extra oil change will be cheaper then a new blower ...

that's what i would do anyway...
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by Lighty »

Personally, I would say you are well on the way to preventing failure with these preventative measures. Personally I wouldn't change the oil feed pipe, but just clean it out and remove the gauze. We did all these things on my sons Pug 206 1.6 HDI, but we also had the turbo overhauled just for good measure.
The EGR blanking will definitely help the issue more than anything, I am convinced that this is where most of the rubbish comes from.
I think you are incorrect about the injectors leaking, this shouldn't cause issues with the oil supply or any contamination.
One thing not to overlook is the DPF filter, personally I would try and get this mapped out, and removed, as this will improve all aspects of the turbos life. I am convinced that restrictions in the DPF are a major factor in turbo failure, due to excessive pressure build up.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by Chlorate »

To be honest you'll probably not find a huge amount of sludge in your engine, if it has been serviced regularly at the specified interval it should be clean as a whistle - or at least clean enough; and expensive oils aren't as special as lubricant companies would have you believe.
Although it's not empirical evidence a friend of mine clocked up well over 200k miles in his Xantia HDi by servicing his car regularly at the 12500 mile interval with the cheapest oil he could find - no engine trouble, no turbo trouble, still as good on fuel as it ever was.

If you're really worried, doing a couple of oil changes a few months apart for a while (using good oil filters) wouldn't do any harm and should clear out a good amount of nastiness if there is any to speak of. I wouldn't personally go to the trouble of taking the sump off though - it's a messy fiddly faff.

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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by wideboyno1 »

The Xantia never had the 1.6hdi so would not have suffered this issue.Bullet proof 2.0hdi was in every one i had.

However,when i purchased my '05' c5 mk2 it had this engine in.I never knew about any of the problems associated with it and when the seller made a big deal about it having a brand new turbo and associated paperwork i actually thought it was a good thing,especially the relatively low mileage at 68k.Needless to say,8 months-ish later although it wasn't the turbo that went there was bottom end engine damage which ended up me selling it on and losing a shed load of money.Only after buying it did i discover the problems with this engine when my inde looked at me in horror when i took it in.I'm convinced that the previous turbo failure and not very thorough replacement contributed to its demise.All the things you have mentioned will certainly help but non more so than very regular oil changes i suspect.
Put it this way i will never have that particular engine in any car again,especially a big car like a c5.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by BigBadBob »

Thanks to all for your responses - it's really appreciated.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by BigBadBob »

Lighty wrote:Personally, I would say you are well on the way to preventing failure with these preventative measures. Personally I wouldn't change the oil feed pipe, but just clean it out and remove the gauze. We did all these things on my sons Pug 206 1.6 HDI, but we also had the turbo overhauled just for good measure.
The EGR blanking will definitely help the issue more than anything, I am convinced that this is where most of the rubbish comes from.
I think you are incorrect about the injectors leaking, this shouldn't cause issues with the oil supply or any contamination.
One thing not to overlook is the DPF filter, personally I would try and get this mapped out, and removed, as this will improve all aspects of the turbos life. I am convinced that restrictions in the DPF are a major factor in turbo failure, due to excessive pressure build up.

Thanks for all your comments.
I did consider cleaning up the oil feed pipe, but having never tried it felt it was safer to replace, and have now bought the new item anyway. I will remove the gauze as you suggest.
Thanks for your comment on the EGR blanking.
The injectors is a "keep an eye out for this" issue, but here are a couple of links that identify the injectors as being one of the possible causes of turbo failure.
https://www.forteuk.co.uk/ForteAdmin/Bu ... %20dv6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (read"cause" towards the top of the document)
http://www.eurocarcare.net/faults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (approx 1/4 way down page you will see "Turbo problems with 1.6 HDI Engines")
The DPF is an interesting point. I hadn't realised they can also cause turbo problems, but was budgeting for a removal/remap when it failed. I now think I would like to do it straight away, but there seems to be great debate on honestjohn as to whether it is legal. I will need to do a bit more research before deciding.
Thanks again for your help

P.S. lovely Ami 8 photo on your website. I had never seen one looking quite so glamorous before!
Last edited by BigBadBob on 04 Feb 2013, 14:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by 1275jstrap »

Hi there all I am new here and I have 15 years Citroen experiance so I would love to help you all.
All DV6 (1.6hdi) engine turbo failures I have seen have been caused by injector carbon leakage due to the injector bolts being loose, Not sure why they come loose possible heat cycles of the copper washers not sure. Anyway if you have a DV6 engine check your injector securing bolts tomorrow I guarantee you they will be loose. I have done best part of 40 turbos on these engines and to all my customers I recommend a full engine strip down and clean because the carbon (looks like coal) leaks from the combustion chamber up the injector tube and destroys the little seal between the cylinder head and the cam housing, It then goes down into the engine just where the valve springs are which smash it up and mix it with the oil. It then makes a real mess of the oil and blocks the stupid little filter on the turbo feed pipe on the banjo and starves the turbo of oil and "goodbye turbo." Fitting a new turbo will not last long i've seen a car come to me which has had 4 turbos and I'm sorry to say if you have this problem the only real permanent fix is to strip the engine' remove the injectors,cam housing,oil filter housing,sump,oil pickup in the sump,oil feed pipe,oil pump and cleanwithin an inch of their lives, Personally I would do the injectors first as they can be a real pain to remove as the carbon can sieze them in solid (ps the carbon softens to a treacle when very hot so the injector removal is best when the engine it super hot and I mean super hot) we leave them running for at least 4hrs at work. Anything i have missed let me know and I will fill in the blanks. PS you will need to recut the injector seal mounting faces in the head as when they leak combustion the leak cuts grooves in the seating faces and the new injector seals will not seal.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by oneday »

wow sounds like a real pain wont be getting one of these engines
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by 1275jstrap »

So long as you kep the injectors tight VERY IMPORTANT the engine is very good 60-70mpg cheap tax quiet. All angines have problems you just need to know how to look after them.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by RichardW »

Are the injector bolts readily accessible?
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by 1275jstrap »

yes very accessible the front ones are a piece of cake but the back ones are a bit hidden under the spill pipes and wiring, I use a long wobbly end allen key and check every one i get in for service and they are all loose in less ive been there before. all you do is pull off top cover (clipped on)and they are there.
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by 1275jstrap »

i am new to this forum but i only know you have repliad is if i recheck all my replys is there a better way????
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

Post by citroenxm »

When you registered did you enter your email address.. you should get an auto response to any replies ... check your spam box for topic subscription replies...
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Re: Trying To Avooid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure

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