Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

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Mandrake
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Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by Mandrake »

In the ongoing MOT readiness saga, tyre fitters have noticed that there is a small exhaust leak, and a lot of rust at the junction between the cat and the silencer(?) box in the main exhaust pipe where the clamp is fitted. :( The sleeve next to the clamp is mostly rusted through. (Should have thought to take a picture!) Have been advised this may be an MOT fail, but its too late to do anything about it before the MOT on Friday. (Don't really have the money anyway!)

I've had two opinions on it, the first one who originally discovered it said it needs a new cat which is going to set me back £260, so I went for a second opinion and they said a new cat is £330, and that if the centre silencer box needs replacing as well (due to possible damage to the clamp flange at the end of the pipe) thats another £115. Can someone give me a reality check here as to whether these prices and what they're saying sounds realistic ?

This car is costing me a small fortune to get MOT ready, it seems to be of an age where everything is wearing out at the same time, (the exhaust leak wasn't there before a recent 900 mile holiday trip) I really hope there is nothing else lurking as I'm basically out of money until the end of the month... pity, because its otherwise running so nicely now and feels really excellent to drive. :)

I'm going to have to plead ignorance at the MOT and worry about what to do if the exhaust does fail. I don't have much choice really.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
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1978 CX 2400
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myglaren
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by myglaren »

It is rather a lot to pull out at short notice.
Mine (on the estate) was in similar distress and the MOT station were going to fit a replacement exhaust & cat but had such difficulty locating the correct one that they just welded it up with the proviso that it would probably need a full replacement for the next MOT - £40 :)

It is still going fine two years later. I haven't got the car any more but was out in it last week.

Perhaps they can be persuaded to weld yours as a put-me-on until your holiday is behind you and you can muster the resources to replace as necessary.
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by Mandrake »

Worth a try. In all the years I've owned cars, all of them old cars, I've never need a cat replacing or other expensive custom fit exhaust part, it's always been a case of either just a new muffler, or some quick on the spot custom pipe bending / patching and welding, so it did come as a bit of a shock to me...
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by CitroJim »

I would be wary of having a cat replaced on a V6 Simon. In fact, don't. The standard replacement is a pathetic thing and not up to the job at MOT time. I (and PavolsV6) knows this as fact and as hard and painful fact too...

The problem is that the tail of the cat is a double-skinned affair and it does rust. The mid-section will be found perfect (ish) and the damage concentrated in the cat's tail. The top skin will rust away but the pipe underneath will be perfect. It's like the top skin is sacrificial...

I'm sure a GOOD welder could make it fine in a matter of minutes with some fabrication.

Old V6 of mine had this and soldiered on for two years with the joint held together with Jubilee Clips..

You need to see a proper custom exhaust fabricator... He'll see you good...

I have a good cat here with a duff tail and I know it's not hard to fix...
Jim

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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by Mandrake »

Oh dear, that's not what I wanted to hear Jim :(

Do you mean the replacements struggle to pass the emissions test ? Or just that they're shoddy and wear out quickly ?

Trouble is I'm painted into a corner as the MOT expires on the 19th - this Sunday, and the MOT is booked for Friday. I know that sounds like last minute (it is!) but I've simply had no choice.

Problem has been that I just can't seem to get days off work when I need them - I've asked for days off 2 weeks in advance several times in the last two months only to wait a week and have them turned down. (I work rotating shift patterns) There's been a whole slew of jobs I've had to do including handbrake cables, (debacle getting the right ones) tyres, (debacle getting them balanced) steering joints and so on and I've only just managed to scrape together enough non-raining days off work to get those and other jobs done, so I'm really down to the wire now whether I like it or not.

I presume legally I can't drive the car to get it repaired after the 19th even if I've been for a test and I'm waiting for a re-test ? Not sure where I would even begin to look for a custom exhaust fabricator in my area who would be willing to do the job when I'll only have Friday afternoon and Monday available. I might have no choice but to get it replaced. :(

Fingers crossed it passes, or that the MOT tester is willing to do a quick weld job on it otherwise I'm probably snookered with a car I can't drive legally, can't afford to fix this month, and with no suitable times off work to get it fixed! #-o
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
RichardW
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by RichardW »

Baked bean tin, exhaust paste, jubilee clips, job's a good 'un :-D

I can probably weld it (it won't be pretty!) but not this weekend....
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by xantia_v6 »

onlineautomotive.co.UK may have cheaper cats, they supplied the rear silencer that Jim has fitted. eBay 160689844186 is very good value for the center section.
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:Baked bean tin, exhaust paste, jubilee clips, job's a good 'un :-D

I can probably weld it (it won't be pretty!) but not this weekend....
Weld it to what, a baked bean tin ? :lol:

Thanks Richard, but I'm working this weekend anyway. (god I hate shifts :x )

I'm sure I could could come up with something to stop the leak (it's very minor IMHO) but its making the MOT man smile that matters, and I'm not sure the baked bean tin would do that. :-D

I had a great exhaust repairer back in NZ, he would have taken one look at it and set to work fabricating a new outer shroud for it and welding it in without batting an eye. He dealt with many a tricky problem including fabrication and repairs to the Byzantinely complex exhaust system on the GS. (anyone who ever owned a GS will know what I'm talking about! 99 clamps, expansion chambers, pipes crisscrossing everywhere and so on...)

I'm sure somewhere here there will be someone as good, it's just a matter of finding them.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by CitroJim »

Mandrake wrote: I'm sure somewhere here there will be someone as good, it's just a matter of finding them.
Yep, that's the problem in Blighty Simon. Back when I lived in Cyprus the default position of exhaust places was to make one from raw materials right before your very eyes. Or else repair what you had. The idea of a complete system off the shelf was unheard of. They simply had an assortment of silencers, pipes, a bender and a welder and they could make anything... 25 years ago now so things may have changed there too...
xantia_v6 wrote:onlineautomotive.co.UK may have cheaper cats, they supplied the rear silencer that Jim has fitted. eBay 160689844186 is very good value for the center section.
I believe to was that mob that supplied the cat on Pavlos's car. The MOT was a struggle of biblical proportions... Their other components are very serviceable though, bar the rather rorty backbox...
Jim

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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by PavlosV6 »

Hi Mandrake,
A complete new system, including specially manufactured header pipes, cost me best part of a grand back in January this year. As Jim says, this was from onlineautomotive at Northampton and the back box sounds well fruity. The cat cost £105.48 inclusive of VAT but Jim and I have grave doubts with regard to its effectiveness due, largely we feel, to its small size compared to the old one. We would be very interested though to see if a further unit would pass the MOT straight from the fitters. For reference their product code for the cat is CIT5012 and stock code is ECCN5011. Good luck and keep us posted.

You got a Mk1 or Mk2?
Paul
'97 Xantia MK1 V6 Exclusive in Mauritius Blue - 205K - "Old V6" - A new life begins.....
'06 Picasso Exclusive 110 in Mediterranean Blue - 106K
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by Mandrake »

It's a Mk2. Taking it for the MOT tomorrow, if it fails on that I'll ask them if they can weld it. As far as I can see there's nothing else wrong with the rest of the exhaust system - just the rust on the outer sleeve at the clamp and the leak which is also right near the clamp. Its not unduly loud for a V6 so I think the mufflers are ok.

I've had two different quotes on the cat at two different exhaust places and the prices were quite different, of course that includes fitting as well which obscures the real cost. I should have asked what brand the replacement cats were, didn't think to at the time.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by CitroJim »

All the best for the MOT Simon [-o<
Jim

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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by Mandrake »

Thanks Jim,

It must have been the kind wishes and crossed fingers of the forum members that did it, but it PASSED!!!! :-D :P

I can hardly believe it when I went in expecting a fail, you have no idea how relieved I am. =D>

I did get some advisories though - they commented on the exhaust - "minor leak of exhaust gasses", as well as both front brake flexible hoses being "slightly deteriorated", so I guess I'll have to replace those before next time. (A fun job no doubt... :wink: )

The only other comment which wasn't an advisory was that the handbrake needed adjustment, I assume thats because the new handbrake cables have only been on for a week and are still stretching - I did set them fairly tight and they do seem to have eased off a bit, so I'll give it another few weeks for them to settle in then readjust them.

Regarding the exhaust, although technically I could go until next MOT time its possible that leak may burn out into a big leak rather quickly in the next few months so I'll probably look around at my leisure and see if I can find a fabricator/welder to do a repair job and keep the original cat if at all possible.

Regarding the performance of the cat itself, I've attached a picture of the emissions report for you propeller heads to comment on. :lol:
IMG_0142.jpg
I understand most of it, and the CO and HC readings look very good to me for an old car (?) but I'm curious to know what the lambda figure is, and what it being near the top end of the range means, whether thats a future problem etc...

Also what sort of figures were you seeing on the replacement cats that you were struggling to get a pass with ?
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by Xantidote »

Mandrake wrote:it PASSED!!!! :-D :P
Woopee - great relief to you, and to all following your posts. Fix the outstanding issues at your leisure :-D :-D
Martin

1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased :( )
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Re: Xantia V6 catalytic convertor

Post by CitroJim »

Readings are good Simon. The lambda value indicates the mixture is just a tad on the lean side. You may have a lambda sensor that's becoming a bit sluggish, a slight duff MAP sensor or most likely a small air leak on the inlet manifold... Before the next MOT a new manifold gasket may be in order.

Can you get her on a Lexia? That may well reveal the cause.

Anyway, that's all academic for now. Well done and I'm very pleased :-D =D>
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...