Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

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c.morewood
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Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by c.morewood »

I seem to have been going through a lot of wishbone bushes lately. For the first 180K mostly motorway I had none replaced. In the last 40k since we moved to rural Aberdeenshire I've had 4 sets and now another one at least is going 4k (3 months) after it was replaced.

I had one bad experience and bought one from e bay it lasted abut 500 miles!! the rest have been GSF or Citroen.
This time I'm going to try replacing the bushes, and (lemforder) drop links at the same time and doing both sides almost at the same time..see if that makes any difference.

Is there a knack to replacing them.. more to the point is there a knack to not replacing them?
Why do they go so frequently? Is it just my driving style or could it be something else affecting the rubber degredaton?

Chris
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
addo
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Post by addo »

LHM or oil contamination can affect them. Poor installation practice can affect them, too - are you subletting the work?

I got almost 100K miles out the factory set, then maybe 50K from the Sasics which replaced them. Towing affects their life, as does brutal acceleration or hard cornering.
c.morewood
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by c.morewood »

addo wrote:Towing affects their life, as does brutal acceleration or hard cornering
The last set (GSF) I did myself.. carefully... and they've only lasted a few months.No oil contamination.. the engine doesn't loose a drop and the same for LHM. Accelerating brutally she doesn't do anymore..nor towing..She's an old lady!! but here are a few 90 degree corners I have to go around on the way to work.. That may be the reason.
Poor installation practice? Thats what I'm asking about addo.. Is there a right way and a wrong way or just a better way?
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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Post by addo »

Sounds like you're doing everything by the book, assuming the P-bushes are driven on with no stress to the outer shell. I'm sold on torquing once car has been allowed to stabilise with engine running, but that is more likely to affect the front eyes than the P's.
rory_perrett
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by rory_perrett »

First Xantia met its maker at around 130k miles, the 2nd at 225k miles, neither had replacement bushes. Current Xantia had replacements before I got it at 118k miles. I then had to replace at around 180k miles. However I used arms and bushes off another car which had already done 80k+ miles. These have now done another 80k miles so 160k+ miles in total and no problems (straight through MOT the other week). I have a theory that once you start replacing bushes they don't last as long, hence, partly why I fitted original used off another car to see if they lasted any longer.
red_dwarfers
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by red_dwarfers »

I guess the angle of the P bushes is quite important, if they're twisted too far one way or the other at normal ride height I don't imagine it would help things as it would put a constant pressure on them. I'm only speculating though.

Talking about things lasting, I think the battery on my '98 Xantia is the original :shock:
Kev

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c.morewood
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by c.morewood »

However I used arms and bushes off another car which had already done 80k+ miles.
Good idea Rory, I think I'll look into that.

Chris
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by CitroJim »

The alignment of the new bushes is critical. Maybe yours was always wrong Chris and you've just followed.. If the alignment is just a tad out they'll not live for long...

I have a spare set of wishbones rescued from a scrapper that I use as a reference. A quick check is the 'ear' with the two holes should be parallel to the wishbone arm when in correct alignment.

I could take a picture if it would help...

Else that, just poor quality.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
c.morewood
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by c.morewood »

Last time was my first try .. I was pretty sure I could make a better job of it as I followed instructions on another thread on this forum. and got (what I though was) good quality bushes having experienced the 1000 mile bush failure. So it wasn't for the want of trying.
Maybe its just my style of driving.. being a motorcyclist I use the gears a lot for braking.. I only have to replace pads when I need new discs..
I was wondering if there was a special alignment that I wasn't doing.
I'm in the process of examining Rory's option of fitting "low" mileage wishbones from a breakers to see whether thats cost effective.. at least then I've got a spare pair to play with then.
Thanks for the advice Jim

Chris
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by Mandrake »

c.morewood wrote: I was wondering if there was a special alignment that I wasn't doing.
The alignment of the bushes - at least the front one with the clamp, is critical. The rubber can only twist so far, if the alignment is out the rubber will be under too much stress when the suspension moves in one direction.

The following diagram shows that the bottom of the arm should be 8mm lower than the bottom of the subframe before tightening the clamp on the front bush:
b3cp00gd.gif
Did you do this ? The idea is to have the bushes under no torsional stress at the normal ride height...
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
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c.morewood
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by c.morewood »

Thanks Mandrake,
I think what I did was to make sure the bottom of the arm was level with the floor, which would be wrong acording to the diagram and be putting the arm under stress.
Thanks for the diagram.. hopefully this'll help others.
Chris
Chris
Tesla Model 3 LR DM AWD Blue White
'00 Xant 110HdiSX Est 83K "W"
'99 Xant 110HdiSX Est 320K "V"
'98 Xant 1.9TDSX Est 150K "T"
'97 Xant 1.9TD 20k Est
'94 Fiat TipoTd 40K

'85 BMW K100RT 330K Garaged 26yrs '80 Honda CB250 twin Superdream
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CitroJim
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by CitroJim »

Indeed, that’s an excellent diagram Simon but once the new 'P' bushes are fitted they're a devil to get off again intact for refitting.

However, I have successfully, with the careful use of a cold chisel and a big hammer...
Jim

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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by Mandrake »

Sorry, when I said front bush, I actually meant the round bush with the two bolt clamp (illustrated in the picture) which is at the end of the L shaped arm, but I can't actually remember if the arm orientates that bush towards the front or the back of the car!! :oops: It's been that long since I've looked seriously under the front suspension of a Xantia...

The only one I've ever dealt with is we replaced the left arm on my Dad's Xantia as it was bent from prior accident damage (a full 10-20mm out of position at the wheel hub end, upsetting steering tracking) with a second hand replacement arm, but I can't remember whether we had to swap the round bush over from the old arm or whether it already had one...I do remember though following the above diagram when aligning the arm rotation before tightening the clamp.

In another thread it was suggested I might be looking at replacement bushes due to high fuel consumption on the V6 - a job that I'm not sure I want to tackle in the near future, if at all! :? What tools are involved in getting the old bushes on and off ?
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Post by addo »

Air chisel will sort the old ones. Front eye can be driven in with a mandrel sleeve on the outer shell; P bush needs a small tube or socket that barely clears the spigot, to ensure there's no stress to the rubber upon fitment.
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Dommo
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Re: Xantia wishbone bushes replacement frequency

Post by Dommo »

Mandrake wrote:The idea is to have the bushes under no torsional stress at the normal ride height...
I've often wondered how the bushings on sinkers cope with this, as the bushings must be under constant load when sunk down?