1.4 TU engine - Head Gasket?

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 19 Jan 2008, 17:26

Hi All,
I will be replacing the cambelt on the Mrs's Xsara 1.4 soon as the car has 48,000 miles on it. I'm not sure what the service intervals for the belt on this engine are but I always like to air on the side of caution & change cambelts early.

That said I have noticed that the engine seems to have an oil leak which seems to be coming from the cambelt end of the engine, front corner. From what I have read about the 1.4 engine this seems quite a common problem & I believe its down to the head gasket not sealing an oil gallery in the area mentioned.

So if I'm pulling the cambelt off I may as well go the whole hog & do the HG at the same time...2 birds with one stone sort of thing.

Regarding a new HG...are after market gaskets any good for this engine? or is the Citroen gasket the one to use.

Thanks.

Regards, UB.

Post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jan 2008, 17:44

Yep, TU engines are shockers for leaking oil there and it's such a shame to have to disturb an otherwise good head gasket to cure it

Just before you fully condemm the head gasket, check the rocker box (cam cover) gasket, this is not the most oil-tight device in the word and tends to pesish and leak for England after a few years in service.

If it is the head gasket, the leak will steadily get worse. My first Citroen, a 1.1 AX, had this problem and I ignored it for a long time. You know how it is, young family etc, etc, car comes last. Before I knew it I had an oil leak of Torrey Canyon proportions...

The gasket sets GSF sell seem quite fine. Made by Corteco if memory serves me. Payen are also very sound.

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 19 Jan 2008, 18:14

Just realy agreeing with Jim...... I would never argue with my elders

The TU engine has an oil gallery in the front corner of the head gasket, they are indeed famous for dribbling oil down the front corner.

Before you do get into removing bits and pieces, have a check and see if it is leaving puddles, I guess not, a little oil does go a very long way. I doubt if this is a big leak so may be best to leave it alone.

Also as Jim says, check the rocker box gasket, although they very seldom give problems unless disturbed.

I was doing the cam belt on my sons 206 last weekend and his has excactly the same leak, as does my daughters 306 and my wifes 306. so there it goes I have 3 potential TU head gasket jobs to do!!!

Go ahead and do the belt anyhow, it's only an hours job at the most, so not exactly a lot of wasted time if you do the gasket later.

I can also confirm that all pattern gaskets seem to be just as good on this engine as OE bits.

Regards
Slim.

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 19 Jan 2008, 18:22

Thanks for your advice Jim & Slim...

Yeah I'll check out the rocker gasket but I think its the corner of the head its coming from.

I ask about the after market gaskets as I remember working on a few VW Polo's a few years back...they also have an oil gallery at the front corner of the block that leaks ..... advice from a VW specialist that I knew back then was only to use a VW gasket as the after market versions only managed to seal the oil gallery for a few months.... then back to square one!

I'll price up a genuine Citroen gasket & if there's not much in it I'll go genuine I think!

Regards, UB

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 19 Jan 2008, 19:03

the only thing i would be concerned about would be if the oil got onto the cam belt or sprockets as it can,

you can usualy tell quite easy if its the head gasket or just the cam cover joint, if the later there will be oil down the face of the head from the top,

as fare as gasket brand goes the two jim mentioned are both very good, dont use any very cheap ones sold by a lot of motor factors
regards malcolm

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 20 Jan 2008, 00:25

Yeah Malcom your correct ....
if the oil has reached the cambelt I would change it anyway as I know what the results can be.

I've just changed the belt on my ZX for the same reason...well it it had done 46.000 but what prompted me to do the change in the snow

was the oil leak that had suddenly developed...it turned out to be the camshaft oil seal, so it had covered the belt & everything else in the vicinity with lovely black diesel engine oil!....whats ironic though is that I would normally change the camshaft & crankshaft oil seal as a matter of course when changing the cambelt....but I was hoping to wait until the fine weather arrived before I done the job

Anyone got ant tips for doing the head gasket on the TU engine that the Haynes manual doesn't mention?

Regards, UB.

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 20 Jan 2008, 11:23

To be quite honest, No!!

It is a fairly simple straight forward nuts and bolts job, these engines are quite easy to work on.

The only thing that I would say is, if you are going to the trouble of removing the head, get a full top end kit, give it all a de-coke and do the valves, just as well do a thorough job, it wont take much longer and at least then you know it's all sorted.

Regards
Slim.

Post by **CitroJim** » 20 Jan 2008, 12:44

slim123 wrote:The only thing that I would say is, if you are going to the trouble of removing the head, get a full top end kit, give it all a de-coke and do the valves, just as well do a thorough job, it wont take much longer and at least then you know it's all sorted.

Absolutely Slim, and have it very lightly skimmed just to be sure the head gasket face is absolutly spotless and totally flat. As a bonus, the skimmer will run it through his washer and it'll come out beautifully sparkly clean; fastest way to decoke a head I know

Lapping in valves is fun

I'm currently rebuilding my son's Nissan S13 CA18DET head for his 200SX drift racer project 8) and that head has 16 of them

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 20 Jan 2008, 16:59

you can do these cam belts and head gaskets without even jacking the car up and removeing the O/S/F wheel they are that easy
regards malcolm

Gammy leg · Post by **Gammy leg** » 20 Jan 2008, 21:37

Would be worthwhile checking the tensioner while you are changing the belt. At 48,000 miles it should still be OK but full belt kit + tensioner works out cheaper than buying separately.

I would bet that Citroen prices will be SUBSTANTIALLY more than GSF or any other reputable motor factor.

Gammy

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 20 Jan 2008, 22:49

slim123 wrote:The only thing that I would say is, if you are going to the trouble of removing the head, get a full top end kit, give it all a de-coke and do the valves, just as well do a thorough job, it wont take much longer and at least then you know it's all sorted.

citrojim wrote:....and have it very lightly skimmed just to be sure the head gasket face is absolutly spotless and totally flat. As a bonus, the skimmer will run it through his washer and it'll come out beautifully sparkly clean; fastest way to decoke a head I know

That's the thing when you go into any engine....you have to resist getting carried away...if your not careful you will end up rebuilding the whole engine...

The car seems to be running fine except for the oil leak from the head & as it's going to be used as a 2nd car I'm not going to do any unnecessary work or spend extra cash if i can help it.

I've never worked on a wet liner engine before ...I've done a few head gaskets & full rebuilds in my time but never on a wet liner engine.

Thanks for all the advice....it's appreciated.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Jan 2008, 08:17

wet linners are no prob as long as you dont rotate the cranck even just a knats whisker whilst the head is off, and when splitting the head try to move it towards the back or front by one end (usualy gear box end) before liftting it upwards, if you move the linners just the very slightest bit it will break the very fine seal between the linner and cranck case, i made a flat metal bar with a hole drilled in each end to bolt diagonaly across the top of the linners whilst the head is off, using two head bolt points at diagonaly opposite corners
regards malcolm

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 21 Jan 2008, 12:19

Thanks for that advice malcolm

I'll be in no rush to complete the job so I'll probably take the time out to make a bar to clamp the liners down as you did.

Any one know what the dimensions of the camshaft & crankshaft oil seals are on this engine?

Regards, UB.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Jan 2008, 13:22

not off hand but i think if you buy the mellior? gasket kit from GSF you will get the cam seal with it, and i think they also sell the crank seal seperatly
regards malcolm

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 21 Jan 2008, 15:01

Was just wondering if the oil seals were the same size as on the 1.9 TD engine as I have a few spares lying round somewhere.

I used to buy any oil seals I needed from a local bearing shop...they always worked out very cheap compared to anywhere else, but the little shop has now gone.

A mate of mine has used this place a few times & says the service is very good....along with their prices...worth using if you are replacing a few seals.

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/oil_se ... lAodbwoJ-Q