Xantia HDi 110 aux belt / tensioner

Unread post by **RichardW** » 16 Feb 2010, 20:56

Does the HDi 110 use the same aux belt tensioner as the later 1.9TD (2.1 type)? Noticed a distinct whine coming from the car this evening, sounds like the front of the engine rather than the cambelt, so possibly tensioner or alternator. On a quick look couldn't see any slant or wobble in the tensioner, so possibly the alternator. Is there just the one tensioner on these - how do you relieve / set the tension? If the alternator has to come out does the HP pump need to come out first, or can you slide the alternator out somewhere?

Last time I had a noisy alternator was on a BX TD nearly 10 years ago. got progressively worse until one day it was really bad and then seized solid in the middle of Reading stalling the engine

while SWMBO was driving it

changing that over turned into a right trial too - getting it out was much harder than it should have been....!

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 16 Feb 2010, 21:23

No, they thank god ditched the hpelessly weak and useless spring loaded auto tesnioner, for a much more reliable one, similar to a VW type tensioner...

Similar style to this one

Paul

Unread post by **RichardW** » 28 Feb 2010, 22:28

Changed the oil today (just about got a break in the sleet showers, although it was back on a bit by the end

) so had a chance to have a listen to the various components with my 'stethoscope' (read: random bit of wood i found lying around in the garage!) - which points the finger at the alternator. Doesn't look to bad to get out, although the top engine side bolt looks interesting to get to, as it is tucked in behind a cable tray. Seems that the alt will come out upwards if the intercooler pipe is removed. Still not sure about the belt tensioner - just swing on the 'nut' in the middle to relieve the tension? Necessary to relieve the other tensioner to get the belt back on? It looks similar to that shown in the Haynes book for the Picasso - that rates 4 spanners for changing the belt alone (due I guess to lack of access) - getting the alternator out will be a mare on that, as there is no room past the header tank for the PAS which seems to form part of the pump above the alternator.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 28 Feb 2010, 22:32

Youll have to take the PAS pump off to get altinator out...

You be surprised, there looks enough space, but Im sure the pump does have to come off from what I remember..

Paul

Unread post by **RichardW** » 02 Mar 2010, 13:43

This is the Xantia - reference to the Picasso was only becuase that covers the HDi engine - so it would be HP pump out if required.

Having looked at the engine and BOL it is the same as the Picasso set up, and I think I understand how it works - to get the belt off just push the tensioner back against the spring, then to reset the tension insert a pin in the hole, back off the eccentric, fit belt, adjust eccentric till pin falls out. Alternatively swing on the spring tensioner with one hand whilst trying to feed the belt under it with the other

Replacement alt is looking like the thick end of £200 - but there is an autosparks near where I work that might replace the bearings, but at 100k, how much life left in the rest of it?

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 02 Mar 2010, 15:12

you WILL need to undo the eccentric tensioner too as there wont be enough slack to simply turn the auto tensioner against the spring - infact the spring may well be too strong to turn it..

Second, with out lowering the engine, its hard to get a tool in to turn the auto tensioner, or get at the eccentric roller..

Paul

Unread post by **RichardW** » 02 Mar 2010, 16:07

Brill. Not

I remember when I dashed home from work to 'whip' the seized alternator out of the BX TD, expecting it to take 30 minutes. 2 hours later I was still removing parts to get enough room to get the darn thing out.... this has all the hall marks of a repeat performance!

Unread post by **RichardW** » 23 Jun 2010, 13:03

4 months and 6k miles on, and it's getting steadily noisier - my 18month old son thinks all cars make a whining noise now

Had a development this morning though that might hasten things even more - above 3k rpm the charging light started flashing. It looks like an ECU thing rather than a direct feed off the alt as the flashing looks too long period and too relgular to be direct off the alt. Perhaps the belt is slipping at higher revs

Mind you I did switch off the A/C just before I noticed this, so perhaps that has some bearing (ha! no pun...) on it.

It turns out to be a Bosch alternator, and replacing the bearing(s) shouldn't be too bad - but I don't have a window to have it off the road for a few days while I do it, so going to have to be replacement - pattern ones on the 'bay for 100 notes so not diabolical. Or I could get one from the local dismantlers - depends on how much he wants I guess - and then refurb the Bosch one at leisure, so it's ready to refit if required. At least if I have to do a 2nd change out, I will have an idea what I am doing

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 23 Jun 2010, 13:22

Sorry, I'm hopeless when it comes to compatibility of the various parts and it's always made worse by missing labels for some reason.

If you know if it'll fit, I've got a Valeo alternator taken off a MK1 xantia going spare?

Unread post by **RichardW** » 23 Jun 2010, 14:34

Cheers Mike - it's unlikely to fit (the HDi uses a hulking great 150A unit!), but I will check on service.citroen - what engine did it come from?

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 23 Jun 2010, 15:05

The mounting from S1 and S2 are different too, and theres different mountings on later ones aswell!!!

I think the Xantia altinator on the HDi is fixed, as per later TD XUD's with air con...

The HDi one has two long bolt mounting tunnels top and bottom but mounted about twenty past one towards one side... I think is the easyest to describe it..

I fitted a Berlingo altinator to my Air Con setup when I fitted Air Con to my 1994 L plate TD...

Paul

Unread post by **RichardW** » 24 Jun 2010, 08:41

Thanks for the offer Mike, but it does look like the MK1 and MK2 versions are different, so I'll have to explore other avenues...

Unread post by **RichardW** » 10 Oct 2010, 13:38

Today is car fixing day (SWMBO has gone away for the week, so I have both cars!). Alternator now out on the bench and in pieces - front bearing is the noisiest - need to get it to may mate with an impact driver to get the pulley off and remove the bearing mounting plate. Getting it out is not as bad as it might seem....

Disconnect the battery

Remove (half the car

):

Engine upper and lower covers
Intercooler pipe
Oil filter
Ecu and box
OSF wing liner

There's a wiring harness in a plastic tray across the front of the engine, undo a bolt at either end and ease it upwards (noting that it has a pin that goes into the alternator bracket) - about an inch and it will sit on the fuel filter drain plug.

You need to get the aux belt off now - the spring tensioner is 15mm - which happens to be the size of a push bike pedal spanner - which are nice and thin by design

. With the ECU box out of the way, I was able to get this on the tensioner and turn it enough to get a pin (4mm) in the second hole in the bracket, which leaves enough room to get the aux belt off.

Remove the wires from the alternator and cut away the cable tie holding them to the bracket (a bit of a challenge....!). Now you can remove the four (!) mounting bolts.

Re-set the wiring harness to roughly its original posiion and there is *just* enough room to wiggle the alternator out past the PAS pipe and top hose (which needs a bit of a squish). Note that the 2 inboard bolts have a collar and taper fitting in the bracket which may be loose - recover the bits if so.

Surprisingly only took about an hour!

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 10 Oct 2010, 15:16

Well done Richard that job sounds like a right pig.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 17 Oct 2010, 14:06

Now back together. Turned out to be front bearing in the alternator that was shot - the slip rings and brushes were looking a bit worn too. My mate got the pulley and front casing off, but didn't have a suitable puller for the bearing. Took it to an alternator repair place who hummed and harred a bit and we decided an exchange item was the best bet - £111 so not too bad. Got it home and fitted it, started up, charge light went out...then came back on after about 30s

Wandered off to get the meter to check, and by the time I got back the alternator was smoking

Stripped it out again, and when turned over it was just catching somewhere inside. A 70 mile, 2 hour round trip later on Saturday morning (place was near work

) and I had a second exchange alt. Now fitted and working. Blimey it's quiet! Had the duff one out in about 15mins, got it sussed now

Trick is to lift the alt over the PAS pipe firs before going across and then out to the right of the top hose, rather than trying to squeeze it between the rad and the pipe.