HELPPPPP, Dealer just want money money money money

[Rhothgar]

You’re bang on Marc.

Obviously it’s not the issue now but I thought it is useful for people to know just in case they read thread in future and it educates member in particular and gives them options if they are just being blanked by the dealer.

You’re absolutely 100% right about servicing. Most garages have access to correct servicing data and what should be carried out so warranty should be unaffected. However, a ‘back-street’ garage may not have access to relevant data.

I think all manufacturers tend to be slippery in this regard and will readily try to prevent a customer from going elsewhere.

[wheeler]

I doubt if they have ever changed the urea tank and did other repair work that they claimed to have done because the same problem has come back again and again... Can I have other garage to check and see if the tank has been replaced ?

As i said above I cant imagine the dealer would blatantly lie & say they changed a £1000 part when they didn't. Any garage should be able to tell if it has been changed just by looking at it.
If you really don't believe they have changed it ask to see the old one, it should be in a storage area labelled up with your vehicle details. They need to hold onto warranty parts for 3 months as PSA can request them back. If they say It has already been returned to PSA ask to see the return request or just ask Citroen directly if it was returned.

[yingxue2022]

I doubt if they have ever changed the urea tank and did other repair work that they claimed to have done because the same problem has come back again and again... Can I have other garage to check and see if the tank has been replaced ?

As i said above I cant imagine the dealer would blatantly lie & say they changed a £1000 part when they didn't. Any garage should be able to tell if it has been changed just by looking at it.
If you really don't believe they have changed it ask to see the old one, it should be in a storage area labelled up with your vehicle details. They need to hold onto warranty parts for 3 months as PSA can request them back. If they say It has already been returned to PSA ask to see the return request or just ask Citroen directly if it was returned.

They said they don't see the reason why I have to see parts because they can reassure that it is been replaced. Anyway I have also raised the issues to Citroen berlingo and made complaints. I have also got in touch with automotive-compliance.co.uk , but they said because it is not a product complaint they cant judge or investivgate? so what is a product complaint then？ Do I have to complain about the vehicle itself rather than the ad blue signal problem?>

[Rhothgar]

I doubt if they have ever changed the urea tank and did other repair work that they claimed to have done because the same problem has come back again and again... Can I have other garage to check and see if the tank has been replaced ?

As i said above I cant imagine the dealer would blatantly lie & say they changed a £1000 part when they didn't. Any garage should be able to tell if it has been changed just by looking at it.
If you really don't believe they have changed it ask to see the old one, it should be in a storage area labelled up with your vehicle details. They need to hold onto warranty parts for 3 months as PSA can request them back. If they say It has already been returned to PSA ask to see the return request or just ask Citroen directly if it was returned.

They said they don't see the reason why I have to see parts because they can reassure that it is been replaced. Anyway I have also raised the issues to Citroen berlingo and made complaints. I have also got in touch with automotive-compliance.co.uk , but they said because it is not a product complaint they cant judge or investivgate? so what is a product complaint then？ Do I have to complain about the vehicle itself rather than the ad blue signal problem?>

Well I'd say that is a red flag straight away but please try to remain open minded about their response. How can they reassure you if you don't feel reassured and want to see the old part? It doesn't make sense.

Contact The Motor Ombudsman just for advice first. They are unbiased. I would suggest talking with Citroen again and advising them that you will be raising a complaint with The Motor Ombudsman if they do not take your complaint seriously. Essentially, as with any Ombudsman service, you have to wait 8 weeks from the initial complaint to be able to raise it formally with them.

I know the Financial Ombudsman charges £800 for complaints raised to the company concerned so the Citroen garage will not want to be forking out good money if they have done the job right. This is why you must give them ample opportunity to resolve.

[yingxue2022]

As i said above I cant imagine the dealer would blatantly lie & say they changed a £1000 part when they didn't. Any garage should be able to tell if it has been changed just by looking at it.
If you really don't believe they have changed it ask to see the old one, it should be in a storage area labelled up with your vehicle details. They need to hold onto warranty parts for 3 months as PSA can request them back. If they say It has already been returned to PSA ask to see the return request or just ask Citroen directly if it was returned.

They said they don't see the reason why I have to see parts because they can reassure that it is been replaced. Anyway I have also raised the issues to Citroen berlingo and made complaints. I have also got in touch with automotive-compliance.co.uk , but they said because it is not a product complaint they cant judge or investivgate? so what is a product complaint then？ Do I have to complain about the vehicle itself rather than the ad blue signal problem?>

Well I'd say that is a red flag straight away but please try to remain open minded about their response. How can they reassure you if you don't feel reassured and want to see the old part? It doesn't make sense.

Contact The Motor Ombudsman just for advice first. They are unbiased. I would suggest talking with Citroen again and advising them that you will be raising a complaint with The Motor Ombudsman if they do not take your complaint seriously. Essentially, as with any Ombudsman service, you have to wait 8 weeks from the initial complaint to be able to raise it formally with them.

I know the Financial Ombudsman charges £800 for complaints raised to the company concerned so the Citroen garage will not want to be forking out good money if they have done the job right. This is why you must give them ample opportunity to resolve.

'I will be really grateful if you can kindly examine the vehicle again and fix the AD blue problem immediately. However I will have to raise the issue with the Motor Ombudsman if it still remains unsolved. I should also seek legal advice to protect my consumer right. ' I have included that in the email too, and requested to see the parts. The service manager replied

Thank you for the email



Its disappointing to read that the vehicle still has issues , we will need to re-inspect the vehicle to understand what is causing the light to come on



We will either have the parts or a collection note for them but inspecting the parts is not going to show you any issues , if you feel we haven’t replaced them and want to see them for that reason I can assure you the Urea tank was changed



Let me know some dates you can re-attend for us to inspect the vehicle further and I will assist

[yingxue2022]

It is very very desperate and frustrating... I have contacted automotive-compliance.co.uk and they immediately kicked the ball away because it is not a product complain rather to do with warranty. I asked if I can complain about the vehicle itself Citroen berlingo with the ad blue signal then there was no reply. I contacted citroen berlingo million times and end up with no reply as well. As with Motor Ombudsman I have a feeling that just like automotive compliance they are funded by the dealers, so they might just take their side still? sigh... I can't even sell in a reasonable price in its current condition, and it wont be fair to pass to someone else to deal with this too... But then I fear that I will be left with a useless van at the end of the day. Business is already hugely affected by the disability of the van now anyway...

[yingxue2022]

You can see the parts replaced no problem but we are unable to tell you the reason the system failed as the pump is internal within the urea tank , it was the Urea pump that was faulty but need to complete tank due to the location of the pump , Citroen does not use any illegal parts and have not been involved in the emission related issues which effected VW

latest reply from the manager, I am not quite sure what this meant though... So even the garage dont know what the problem is? or they know what went wrong with the ad blue system, but didnt actually complete the proper repair?

[Rhothgar]

Speak with The Motor Ombudsman and ask their advice. You will know simply from talking with them that they are 100% neutral

[Rhothgar]

Either way, from that reply, it looks as though they are taking you more seriously.

You could of course get an independent assessor or garage to inspect the works they say they have undertaken.

They do say you can either see the collection note or the part but it will not show you what was wrong. In this case, I would perhaps say that you would like to see proof that the part has been changed as you have lost trust because (assuming this next comment is true) you were told that replacement of the part would resolve the issue. (Only state that if this is fact).

You can only work on facts and the Ombudsman would also expect the full facts.

Have you even been onto The Motor Ombudsman website?

[Rhothgar]

I’ve just spoken to a very good mate that owns a garage. The Motor Ombudsman is 100% impartial.

He also said that the garage should have programmed the ECU to tell the van it has has had a new tank and that they put so much fluid in it and after that the vehicle needs driving for some distance.

Maybe they haven’t done the programming, maybe they forgot to tell you that you needed to drive it for so long, maybe they did and you forgot or just ignored it.

These are the things you need to consider.

Good luck!

[yingxue2022]

I’ve just spoken to a very good mate that owns a garage. The Motor Ombudsman is 100% impartial.

He also said that the garage should have programmed the ECU to tell the van it has has had a new tank and that they put so much fluid in it and after that the vehicle needs driving for some distance.

Maybe they haven’t done the programming, maybe they forgot to tell you that you needed to drive it for so long, maybe they did and you forgot or just ignored it.

These are the things you need to consider.

Good luck!

Thank you so much, I don't think they have even replaced the tank... we will know better when we go there tomorrow, and double check what was done. I will of course meanwhile contact Mortor Ombudsman to seek advise. Thank you again for your help, much appreciated.

[Rhothgar]

Cool. Let us know how you get on. The key thing is to remain reasonable and respectful at all times so far as is possible.

“Firm but fair!” as an old boss of mine used to say.

[yingxue2022]

Cool. Let us know how you get on. The key thing is to remain reasonable and respectful at all times so far as is possible.

“Firm but fair!” as an old boss of mine used to say.

Just left the car at dealership this morning, asked to see old parts then the service manager agreed. But this morning he started playing with me, and told me they can't find it after I watied 2 hours. I asked why they can't find it, he then said it was returned to citroen already a month ago. Full of lies....I showed him the email that he confirmed himself that I can see the parts no problem, but only one day later he changed his mind and that he only found out part was sent back to citroen a month ago? Anyway I got someone from citroen berlingo headquater and accepted his words, no one seems to bother if the part was replaced or not... I am worried that They are going to just invoice warranty another big bill without fixing the problem. I thought about selling the van now but dont think I can get a good price without the problem fixed.

The manager then said forget about old part, it has nothing to do with the problem. I said I am going to raise complaint to Mortor ombudsman if it doesnt get resolved and fixed, he said you should raise complaint about dealer who you bought from not us. But the ad blue signal is manufacture fault isn't it? This van is simply a nightmare with this ongoing ad blue problem. hope this time they can fix it...for real

[GiveMeABreak]

There seems to be 2 issues here:

1) There is the manufacturer warranty of 3 years ( I would need to check this also applies to vans or commercial vehicles if that is the designation, but I think it still does). This warranty should be in place and honoured as long as the vehicle has been serviced according to the manufacturer's recommended servicing intervals and to the same servicing standards, regardless of whether this was serviced at a Citroen dealership or another garage. As long as you have the evidence of the servicing (invoices for example). In this case the warranty should be honoured.

2) Normally, if you purchase a vehicle from an independent (non-franchised) dealer, you first port of call for any issues would be with the garage you bought the vehicle from, depending on what sort of warranty they offered when you bought it. They should have the right to repair it first of all and put the problem right as these are the people your bought it from.

Having said that, if the vehicle is still within manufacturer's warranty, you should still have a legitimate claim to get Citroen to carry out any warranty work, regardless of the Citroen authorised dealer you take it to.

I can't see how the franchised dealer is able to pass the buck in this way when it is a manufacturer's warranty, or their lack of competence in diagnosing the problem to start with.

[yingxue2022]

yes exactly, perhaps they just want to get more money from citroen warranty. This is the second Robin and Day we used, and I don't think there is any good one out there now that will geniously try to solve problem for customer