2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

This is the Forum for all your Peugeot Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

Seems two of the three front diesel injectors have a bit of a fuel leak as per pics (5U3G-9K546-AA)

I've tightened up the hold down bolts and line nuts but still get a bit of diesel leakage

The middle one is nice and clean, whilst the other two are brown all over , so hard to tell where the leak may be. No obvious seepage when running

My quick research is either the bottom copper washer is leaking or the middle gasket its leaking, or both or maybe the fuel return line O rings

Any one done these and any tips eg what can go wrong ?

They seems very expensive new.

regards
Attachments
injector part number
injector part number
clean injector
clean injector
dirty injector
dirty injector
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by Huskyxantia »

Change the whole set for each injector , ive done my old picasso no half measures or there leak again .
Check youtube there lots of videos.
Husky. :?
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

Thanks

any special tools or adjustments, or is it just bolt / screw as tight as you can
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

so, got the tools out on the weekend and pulled out all three front injectors on the Hdi.

On pulling off the fuel return lines, I suspect one of the O rings has a cut / snip plus the inside of the fuel return on the injector looked like it had some old blue perished O ring which might explain the leaking diesel. The retaining clips are relatively easy to get off (screwdriver to start and then long nose pliers) but make sure you do not drop them.

Two of the injectors were a bit wet with diesel when pulled out so suspect the copper seal ring at the bottom had leaked a bit.

It look some time to clean the carbon / crap in the shaft / bottom the injectors sit in - I used some spray contact cleaner and lots of small rags on a pronged pickup tool that seemed to do the trick.

The new copper seals I ordered (Renault ones sorry) were twice the thickness but otherwise the same. The extra 1 mm did not seems to upset the joint on the injector pipes and I figured the steel injectors will bed the copper down.

The bent bracket at the top of the injectors seems to act as a tension spring - just need to ensure both sides are equally screwed in till they sit on the top of the injector shaft.

The blue spacers fell out after a run, and not sure what they do anyway maybe act as a warning that injectors are too loose ?. I took the view that they were loose due to the extra 1mm of copper seal

Put it all back together and its running nicely, does not have a diesel smell anymore but still have a small leak from the damaged O ring which I will have to replace (did not have a spare on hand) .

I had a look are dismantling the injector itself but seemed a bit too hard / pointless if the copper seals were the issue

All up around 2 hours

The rear ones will be a bugger to get to .
Attachments
return line lining had old blue perished d O ring inside
return line lining had old blue perished d O ring inside
a bit wet
a bit wet
diesel at the bottom  - note blue spacer
diesel at the bottom - note blue spacer
after clean
after clean
new thicker copper seals compared to old ones
new thicker copper seals compared to old ones
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

I've been trying to get replacement O rings for the diesel fuel return lines without much success. Seems they are not a normal size (surprise surprise) and it broke when I pulled it off.

Assuming they are French metric, a 4mm ID by 1mm (6mm OD) is too thin, a 4mm ID by 1.5mm (7mm OD) is too tight and a 3mm by 2mm (7MM OD) is too tight.

Tight means no way I can push it back in on the injector.

To keep the car going, I've used two of the 4mmID by 1MM which seem to work okay (no leak so far)

I'm waiting on a order of 4mm ID by 1.2MM (6.4MM OD) and a 3.5MM ID by 1.5mm (6.5MM OD) which might work. The only good news is that they cheap.

Anyone has the actual spec size ?
Attachments
O ring sizes
O ring sizes
double O rings to make up 2mm
double O rings to make up 2mm
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

Seems the O rings are 6mm OD, 1.2mm thick / CS and so 3.6MM ID (or at least that seems like the closet size made)
O ring 5mm OD, 3.6mm ID and 1.2mm CS
O ring 5mm OD, 3.6mm ID and 1.2mm CS
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

After having mixed results with replacing the O rings on the leak off pipe (eg fixed one injector and then another would start leaking), I bought a new leak off pipe and dreaded fitting it because of the rear injectors and what seems to be a impossible work space.

I finally bit the bullet last week and found it was not as bad as I thought.

You do need to take a few bits off the engine including the heat mat and turbo air tube running across the engine (2 clamps and a few nuts) plus disconnect a few of the wires.

It also helped that I had removed the EGR pipes and fitted a EGR block off kit

The worst part is refitting the injector leak off retaining clips - I tied each one with a bit of fishing line so if I dropped (and I dropped a few a few times), I could find it again - worked a treat

Final result was no leaks (so far)

Seems the O ring for a Siemens Injector leak off pipe is a special size - ID 3.6mm / CS 1.3mm / OD 6.2mm and seems more oval than round -specs I found are CMR086-5 and Star 31086/05

for the record any O ring with OD 6.0mm will probably leak

I tried a ID 3.2mm CS 1.4mm (giving a OD of 6.0mm but still o.2mm too small) and also a ID 3.0mm and CS 1.5MM (giving a OD of 6.0mm (but I suspect more like 6.4mm once fitted onto the pipe fitting ) and very tight to fit and generally tears the O ring)
Attachments
EGR block off kit
EGR block off kit
injector retaining clip with fishing line
injector retaining clip with fishing line
bare rear injectors no pipe and no mat
bare rear injectors no pipe and no mat
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by Huskyxantia »

Hows it running ?
Husky. :?
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

Well, the leaks at the front have stopped but not sure about the rear ones as I have some liquid but it does not smell like diesel.

At least now it does not smoke under the hood when I stop (eg vaporised diesel)

I now have a different issue in that at night I can see a bit of smoke in rear car lights on take off.

Ive run diag on it and its now come up with a P0272 Injector flow correction 4, but looking at the readings at idle they are all over the place now, compared to before I changed the leak off pipe and I have not touched the injectors. (see snap) At 3400 rpm they are all 100%

Can someone confirm if the cylinder numbering in a 2.7 HDI is the same as on v6 petrol XFZ (only one I could find)

This would make injector 4 the rear back passenger side (with No 5 next to it).
Attachments
P0272 error after leak off change
P0272 error after leak off change
V6 cylinder numbering
V6 cylinder numbering
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by Huskyxantia »

Looks like your winning , copper washers do get thin after a few years wear n tear if you have the haynes book all the toque setting should be in that , as a rule of thumb haynes tend not to reflect what you are working on half the time, Marc Givemeabreak is pretty cool on here at stuff like that, if he picks this up he may shine more light on your numbers, if the smell has gone and its running better id say you may well have cured it, when diesel leaks it spreads everywhere so what might be thought as a leak could just be old diesel from the first leaking that was going on, can you get a mirror and torch check the places you can't see , with engine running to, the finishing line is in sight just think of the money you have saved doing the job yourself.
Husky. :?
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

So I took the beast for a 400 kms round trip up the coast for a italian tuneup

On the way up I used my Carscanner to view the live data - the turbo seemed to be stuck at 0.27 boost and the fuel consumption never dropped below 7.5 l/100 kms at around 80--100 kms / p h

On the way back I suspect the turbo (not sure which one as the hdi has 2 of them) got unstuck as all of a sudden fuel was down to 3/4 l/100 klms and the turbo bounced between zero (on a flat to over 1 boost and then back again multiple times (lots of big hills)

The smoke at the rear on start up also seems to have fixed itself , the P02724 injector 4 error is gone and the injector readings are a bit more reasonable.

However, the P102 still remains fixed (low air flow rear) - given the EGR is now blocked, any ideas why ?
Attachments
injectors 28082022.jpg
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by Huskyxantia »

Is the exhaust system all nice and no leaks ? Also check any thing that sucks air vacuum lines and so on, egr can work funny if something that runs in situ isn't working as it should.
Egr works with the exhaust, my manifold had three lose nuts my egr was nagging it was either closed or stuck open and stuck blah blah blah, i did the three lose nuts up , different feeling after and the nagging faults went away. But each car is different. Injectors 4 and 6 look like there in a league of there own there.
Maybe Marc,GiveMeaBreak,might have some ideas hes the one who knows his stuff.
Husky. :?
407
Donor 2023
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Apr 2021, 08:55
Location: sydney australia
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 407 Hdi 2.7 (the beast)
407 petrol v6
Citroen C4 Aircross (aka Mitsubishi ASX)
Rover 75 (really a BMW) - gone
Nissan Pathfinder R51 (boat tower)
Nissan Micra (mr incredible car)
Citroen C5 Aircross (the boss'es car)
x 15

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by 407 »

Thanks

re exhaust leaks - I took some wet towels and tried to block / smother the rear twin exhaust and kill the engine but failed a few times - the pressure build up got too much and so I have to assume the exhaust system has no leaks.

re injector readings - a few weeks ago I did the same Diag test and got different results (eg 1-3 were around 80-90% and 4-6 where all at 100% at idle) so I can only assume some have become clogged up given I have not really driven it anywhere but no idea how. Maybe the last tank fill up was bad fuel ? The readings also seem a bit random

Car itself runs well and no real issues to report (bar the smoke on take off which seems to have fixed itself for now )

Still hopefully someone can confirm cylinder numbering :)
User avatar
MattBLancs
Donor 2024
Posts: 2454
Joined: 25 Apr 2022, 09:03
Location: Leyland, Lancashire, UK
My Cars: Citroen C5 Tourer 2.2 HDi Exclusive 173 6speed (daily family practical wagon),
Peugeot 406 Coupe SE 2.0 137 5speed (& originally auto), (former daily off the road for some TLC)
Peugeot 206 GTi-HDi 1.6 110 5speed (my wife's daily)
Peugeot 306 HDi Dturbo 2.0 90 5speed (long term project to reinstate inner wings, former daily. Too sentimental to let it go!)
x 1308

Re: 2007 407 HDi 2.7 diesel injectors leaks

Post by MattBLancs »

407 wrote: 30 Aug 2022, 11:17 Thanks

re exhaust leaks - I took some wet towels and tried to block / smother the rear twin exhaust and kill the engine but failed a few times - the pressure build up got too much and so I have to assume the exhaust system has no leaks.
No need to go as far as killing the engine. If you've plugged the ends briefly and get a rapid increase in pressure and no hissing sound from elsewhere in the system then you've no significant leaks. (Sounds like that is the case from your description)

Compression so high in a diesel think would be a challenge to stall it plugging the exhaust all the same.

Matt
Post Reply