206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

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Grady
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Joined: 14 Sep 2021, 13:51
Location: West Midlands
My Cars: 206 GTI 180 Turbo 06
206 GTI 180 04
Subaru Wrx Sti 04
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206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by Grady »

Hello

This is a long shot but im hopeful,

I am mid-way through a 206 180 turbo conversion, forged engine, holset turbo, meth etc. im trying to put together a 6 speed gearbox strong enough for the 450 horses im aiming for.

I have done tons of research and found scraps of info on various forums, and so far what i can gather, it seems like the ML6C gearbox is a bolt on upgrade over my standard 5 speed BE4. BUT with some issues.

Ive done some digging and it appears i might need an ML5C bellhousing, mated to the 6 speed ML6C box, because of the crank sensor hole not being there on the ML6C bellhousing? i know this is a pretty technical question and i hope i have put this topic in the right section.

Does anyone have any information or experience of fitting an ML6C/ML5C to an EW10J4S engine. I am on a budget, and whilst i would love a Quaife gear set and final drive, they are expensive, and rightly so.

And as a final question, will i be ok to use the 206 flywheel and a 206 paddle clutch with this gearbox?
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Dormouse
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Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by Dormouse »

Hello and welcome. If you are sure the ML6C will bolt up to your block I would recommend getting a sensor boss machined into the bell housing. As for what will cope with 450 hp and fit your engine, I don't have enough experience with any thing this new. One thing for sure though is that you are asking standard parts to go way past their design limits - that is why Quaife make the parts they do. cheers
fynnbar
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Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by fynnbar »

Think you'll find the ML6 won't fit - I researched this a few years ago; from memory, the bolt pattern is slightly different.
As for the power issue, although the ML series gearboxes are stronger than the BE4, they do have their weaknesses (final drive gears tend to wear or chip). So I'd say the max they'll take, as an educated guess, is 200bhp / 400Nm...
2004 Dispatch 110 HDi
Grady
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Joined: 14 Sep 2021, 13:51
Location: West Midlands
My Cars: 206 GTI 180 Turbo 06
206 GTI 180 04
Subaru Wrx Sti 04
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Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by Grady »

Well i got my engine back from the machine shop, dropped this on top of the ML6C i have from a C5 2.0 HDI. The bolt holes on the block match up, however the sump bolts dont, this looks like a straight forward modification with some drilling and tapping to the 180 sump, but its defiantly not a direct fit and to be honest, its not worth it - diesel ratios would be crap.

I have done more research to answer my own questions, and hopefully this will help anyone who's going down the same rabbit hole as me.

The gearbox you want, is from a 407 2.2 petrol (EW12J4S), gearbox code 20MB06 (another ML6C variant with much better ratios) - this has the correct bell housing bolt holes, and most importantly it has the crank sensor hole. If your looking for a LSD - then you want the 3j diff from pug1off. - with regards to power rating, it will take substantially more than a stock box.
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Dormouse
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2010
Joined: 15 Apr 2021, 14:32
Location: Kingdom of Fife
My Cars: Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4, Fiat Ducato, Morris Mini.
plus notable cars I have owned :- Studebaker 1921, Daimler Consorts, Mercedes 220 Pontoon, Simca 1301, Austin Metropolitan, lots and lots of Minis, both steel and fibreglass bodied, Fiat 500F, Citroen GSA's, Skoda Estelle 120 Rally replica, DKW 1000S, Triumph Herald Estate, Warwick GT (very briefly)
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Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by Dormouse »

Cheers and thanks for that Grady. Great you came back with more info.
I have heard of 300 hp going into standard transmissions but I don't know how long they lasted. Your engine will show up the weak spots for sure.
Thanks again. let us know how you get on.
fynnbar
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Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by fynnbar »

Grady wrote: 03 Oct 2021, 15:50 ...but its defiantly not a direct fit and to be honest, its not worth it - diesel ratios would be crap.
Surely with all that power, you'd want the diesel ratios...??
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ronj
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Peugeot 306 Break (EW10J4S Turbo)
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Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by ronj »

As you already found out yourself, the 20MB06 will fit. I have one on my EW10J4S turbo that is going into my 306 Estate. I don’t know if the 206 (or your aftermarket ECU) requires a VSS signal. But that will need some attention (see: https://www.406oc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f ... ed+gearbox).

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Anyway, good to see some activity on this forum.
Grady
Posts: 8
Joined: 14 Sep 2021, 13:51
Location: West Midlands
My Cars: 206 GTI 180 Turbo 06
206 GTI 180 04
Subaru Wrx Sti 04
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Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by Grady »

Wow thanks for that info ronj!

Sorry for the bump, a lot has been going on but now im back to this project. So my engine is now fully built with the forged parts and its at the stage where i can bolt up this gearbox. The 180 clutch and flywheel all fit into the gearbox which makes things nice and easy.

i have ordered a set of 406 2.2 driveshafts in the hope that i can mix and match the parts with the 180 shafts. i think the 406 shafts have a beefy inner spline which ill need for the gearbox. if all goes to plan i could have this engine test fitted in the next couple of weeks. then its onto sorting the gear cables out.

Ronj, i cant help but notice your oil filter housing has been changed, im looking to get rid of that coolant/oil heat exchanger, what have you fitted in place of this? I'm guessing a thermostatic oil cooler plate?
Grady
Posts: 8
Joined: 14 Sep 2021, 13:51
Location: West Midlands
My Cars: 206 GTI 180 Turbo 06
206 GTI 180 04
Subaru Wrx Sti 04
x 1

Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by Grady »

Back again with abit more progress, Engine and box are in temporarily, the box does fit in nicely but i had to removed the diff brace and cut the studs down so they dont hit the subframe. The orginal 180 box mount doesnt really fit but i have modified it with some plate and the engine is now sitting on its own mounts.

Other parts needed will be a 6 speed gear selector and cables from a car with the ml6c manual in it, diesel or petrol will work. You need this for the reverse lock out pin, cables will need extending which is easily done.

Haven't had time to play with the shafts yet but when i do i will post back, i might even do a progress thread in case anyone ever ends up doing the same.
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vufmihai
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My Cars: Peugeot 206 GTI 180

Re: 206 180 turbo - Gearbox ML6C

Post by vufmihai »

I have a similar project in mind with my Peugeot 206
Did you managed to find a lower final gear for this gearbox and a lsd?
I calculated the speeds with this gearbox and it not a big improvement if you do not change the final gear because the 407 comes with bigger tires.
Please add me on facebook to discuss more (@vufmihai)
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