UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by Paul-R »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 05 May 2021, 11:33Well if you want to pay out over a grand for a new Adblue tank, go ahead, your choice.
A bit alarmist there Marc. But, as you say, it's now an informed choice.
GiveMeABreak wrote: 05 May 2021, 11:33Unless you are using an Adblue pump at a service station explicitly designed for passenger cars.
Never seen one of those. Do they actually exist? Slightly related to that, when I had my Montego Turbodiesel Estate I would use an HGV diesel fuel pump if available as it was much faster through the larger diameter nozzle.
GiveMeABreak wrote: 05 May 2021, 11:331) They do include that information - see the manual...
Well I had to check our handbook after that. Just the peremptory instruction without justification.

Anyway, I think I've made my point. Back to the topic.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Fair point Paul. They do have them - probably more likely at the bigger service stations in Europe I would suspect. We're always a bit behind over here... Alarmist - I wouldn't say so as the price of these things is astronomical and if there's a simple thing you can do to avoid damage, it's worth saying I think.
Paul Norman, manager at chemical company Air1, explains that the pumps cannot be used for passenger cars. “Cars will have onboard AdBlue tanks a fraction of the size of a truck’s and the pump flow rate would result in overfilling in a matter of seconds,” he says.
Any liquid shot out at high speed has the potential to damage - here's the innards of a 308 Adblue tank - although the most sensitive parts are contained in another chamber inside the tank, it is only dependent upon the seal as to whether the Urea gets in..
Adblue tank.PNG
Just as an aside, I've just had to recycle our one-cup hot water dispenser (Yes, ok :roll: :-D ), as I realised to my cost that our mains water pressure is quite vicious and where we were refilling it up from the tap, the force of the cold tap water has completely destroyed the valve at the bottom of the unit. I found the remnants of the valve in shreds - exactly where the water hits - so lesson learned and we've opted for a constant hot water dispenser with steel bottom instead....
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by seoras »

Paul-R wrote: 05 May 2021, 11:10 I don't understand why Adblue dispensed from an HGV dispenser should be forbidden. Providing it meets the ISO 2224 standard (which dictates what?) then the only problem I can see is the speed of delivery and consequent risk of overfilling and spillage.
In my case it wasn't specifically an HGV dispenser, HGV's (at least in NZ) fill up at pumps specifically for them.
This dispenser wasn't fast either it took it's time to load up 15L into my car.
I think the issue for me is that I didn't wait and let the car "sleep" (according to the missing manual instructions) but just drove off after paying.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The wait I mentioned (and in the manual) is really only when the tank has been allowed to reach near empty and when the warnings about topping it up have been ignored. This is to allow time for the additive system to reinitialise. It allows the pump to prime itself. You should not need to wait when topping it up from the first few warnings about needing to top it up - only when you have run out and the engine restart has been prohibited.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

@ seoras: I've answered your PM.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by admiral51 »

Just been reading this and tried to work % out.
If we take it that the tank can hold 17 litres and the OP put in 15 litres then that would mean the tank had used 88% of its capacity(100/17x15) and only had 1.8 litres left in it so would probably put a warning light on.
If the OP puts 1 litre of AdBlue in and then follows the procedure that in theory should put the light out ?
As for the filling to fast i guess this could be a PSA issue but the seals are not designed to be under the pressure they would suffer from a pump fed refill system as against a gravity fed refill system ?
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Generally speaking - if the warnings have been ignored and the engine restarting is prohibited, then at least 3.8 Litres must be added and the 5 minute wait...
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Just one other thing I should mention that I completely forgot earlier:

On my particular system on the Aircross, the Urea counter remains on 1700 miles all the time even when topped up. The only time this will fall below 1700 miles is when the level is low enough to start the countdown underneath the 1700 mark!

I remember now that despite me trying to keep filling the Adblue tank up to the point it was overflowing and thinking there was a fault - there wasn't! It was normal behaviour and does not decrease from this point until that is the range remaining based on equivalent Adblue in the tank.

I don't know what the range is set at on your particular vehicle, but it may well be similar and if you are looking at your Adblue counter and seeing the mileage remaining before the engine will not restart as staying the same even after topping up, then don't worry about it :-D
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by seoras »

OK, time for an update on my research and experimentations.

I'm in New Zealand but the car is effectively a British model which is set to Km/hr so please bare with me on the Km's. :)
I'm from Glasgow originally and I've been living in NZ, with Kiwi wife and 4 kids, for several years now. Lovely place, visit if you get the chance!
My background - I'm not a motor mechanic but I am a software engineer with a degree in Electronics and Comp Sci, just to explain my assumptions if any.

Car dropped to 1500Km's remaining last night on route home. Seems to drop in 300Km increments.

I went back to the garage where I had filled up the car from the AdBlue pump just to check it was AdBlue.
Yep, it would appear that the only UREA emissions additive they have here in NZ is just one type of "AdBlue" which is used in all cars.

I then bought a 20L jerry can and some piping and syphoned out as much of the AdBlue out of my car as I could managed.
I got just under 15L out. When I filled it up at the pump it only took 14.3L to fill it. I'm now wondering if in fact my car has a 15L tank.

Before I did any of this I had used the "Car Scanner" App with a WiFi OBD2 dongle on my car to check for fault codes. None found.
When I looked in "Noncontinuous Monitors" I discovered one fail. "NOx Catalyst Monitor Bank 1 - MID$98 Test ID $B1" ($98 & $B1 I would guess are hexidecimal addresses).
original.png
Now with the AdBlue tank empty we went on a long Sunday drive to my mother-in-laws. It was her birthday and it's also mother's day here in NZ. :)
That would be about 100Km round trip.
After this trip I plugged in my OBD2 dongle and checked the errors codes. Still no ECU errors but the "Noncontinuous Monitors" now have 2 errors.
The new error being "NOx Catalyst Monitor Bank 1 - MID$98 Test ID $B3"
2 Errors.png
When we got home last night I filed her up with 10L from a new bottle of AdBlue I had bought - incase the stuff I'd got at the pump was tainted/wrong.
Left it alone all night, not opening doors, turning it on etc etc like the instructions tell you.
The wife took it for a drive this morning and when it came back it still had the UREA light on.
So I hooked up the OBD2 dongle and took another reading.
It's now back to just 1 error code and the reading 32.766 has never changed. It's been at that value ever since the problem started.
The other NOx sensor now reads 47.2 which is well within the manufacturers threshold of -50> <75
Wife took a very short journey so I'm not too concerned about the higher reading of 47.2 compared to 3 originally.
1 Error.png
I'm reading these results as an indication that the AdBlue tank/pump system is working fine but that there's a NOx sensor issue.
I'm going to check in with my local garage to see if they can do anything before I take it to the dealer which is much further away and expensive.

Thoughts/opinions? :)
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by wheeler »

You really cant rule out anything till the denox system been checked properly.
A high NOx reading could be caused by anything, a failed pump, a clogged NOx injector affecting the spray pattern, a failed denox cat.
In my experience denox system fault codes are not usually very helpful & just relate to ‘effectiveness of the deNOx system.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's as I think I mentioned a good few posts back - without further diagnostics at a dealer with the bespoke equipment, it could be a NOx sensor or the electrical harness to the sensor - or another component of the system. So may be time to bite the bullet and fork out the equivalent of £60 for a dealer level diagnostic at this stage.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by thorter »

I notice that the $B1 value of 32,766 is very near 2^15 which could likely be the maximum or minimum value possible, and so suggests either a failed sensor or a broken wire.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by seoras »

thorter wrote: 10 May 2021, 14:26 I notice that the $B1 value of 32,766 is very near 2^15 which could likely be the maximum or minimum value possible, and so suggests either a failed sensor or a broken wire.
You're right. That would make perfect sense. Not very conventional representation of a 16bit floating point number but engineers will simplify where and when they can.

I've booked the car into the dealer on Monday for their diagnostics so we'll see if we're right about that sensor then...
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by stergioszx »

dear seoras,
I have the same problem, "check adblue system" although adblue is topped up. I also have the same app and I get the 32.766 reading on the non continuus monitor for the nox sensor.
I changed the nox sensor but the problem remained after 200-300 kms.
I will be waiting for your findings, thanks.
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by wheeler »

seoras wrote: 10 May 2021, 03:38
I then bought a 20L jerry can and some piping and syphoned out as much of the AdBlue out of my car as I could managed.
I got just under 15L out. When I filled it up at the pump it only took 14.3L to fill it. I'm now wondering if in fact my car has a 15L tank.
Was just looking back over the post since there was a reply & just noticed this.
I take it that means you don't know there is a drain plug on the urea tank? (number 5) :)
You just undo a small torx screw then the plug just twists out. I wouldn't fancy getting a mouth full of urea :-&
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