Peugeot 407 V6 BSM L02 starting issues / wiring diagram ?

[407]

I have a cranking but not starting 407 V6 2004 petrol - was working fine but then started to to not restart when warm (not convenient when you are parked somewhere and want to drive home)

All the vital signs are there (spark, fuel pressure) but no power to injectors

Planet also says all 6 injectors are an issue (P020X) plus the U1108 missing ECU (assume no power)

I have no 12 volts power at fuse 10 (engine manager actuators) and fuse 5 (fuel pump, solenoid valves etc) (which is weird as there is plenty of fuel pressure when you disconnect the fitting).

I've tried the old connect 12 volt power directly to Fuse 10 (which also power up fuse5 - I understand they run off the same line) but still no start.

However, there is a voltage drop of around 1 volt (compared to other fuses) which suggests that there is a bad joint inside somewhere (or a relay issue)

Does anyone have a BMS L02 wiring diagram to check what pins / fuses go to what connectors to see if I can eliminate that as the issue.

Ive bought a second BMS L02 but seem to have the same issue - so not sure if that was also a dead one or there is a external wiring issue (albiet as far as I can tell, the 12 volts comes directly of the battery).

any help appreciated

[GiveMeABreak]

You'll need to pop your VIN up (auto masked on post submission) first if you want a wiring Diagram and I'll see what I've got.

[407]

Thanks

VIN VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, a slight issue - your specific vehicle could of been fitted with one of 2 types of BSI, so I have put up both. This is of the injection system.

Injection BSI Comm 2003 Variant



Injection Cross Range BSI Variant

[407]

Thanks Marc

I recall Planet ids the BSi as the 2003 variant.

I assume my problem is RL2 in PSF1 (fuse box) as I have no 12 v power on Fuses 10 and 5

A few questions if I can

a) do you have a BSM relay id chart (assume its the one in the corner diagonally across from F10 and F11 - see pic)

b) I take RL1 in PSF1 is part of the ignition circuit, which powers up RL2 and the ECU (eg wire 1229 on pin 9 goes to the ECU which goes negative to activates RL1)

c) I assume F1 in PSF1 is the yellow 20 amp fuse next to Fuse 11 (40 amp) - I have 12.9 volts in this fuse so assume RL1 works

d) any ideas why the voltage on Fuse 10 and 5 drops around 1 volt when I apply a wire from the battery (eg reads 11.8 volts) ? When I leave it on and test the other fuses they are reading around 12.8 volts - bad earth or circuit connection some where ? Also the radiator fan turns on but stops after a 30 secs but voltage seems to stay at 11.8 volts

e) I take the injectors (11331 to 1336) are negative / earth triggered by the ECU given they are fed by 12 volts off RL2 / pin 24 on PSF1 (says wire 1355) - any hints which is pin 24 ? I assume on connection 26Y NR (black) as per pic

f) what does not make sense is the ignition coils are also fed by F10 wire 1355 - I have spark so they must be getting 12 volts from F10 (when not hot wired)

g) I also see wire 1355 feeds into 1382 (but have no idea what it is as its not on my peugeot how to read wiring diagram sheet)

regards
Mark

[GiveMeABreak]

Are you sure this is not an immobiliser issue? Any dash warning when trying to start?

A) This is the only internal I have of the Fusebox showing the relays:




C) Yes F1 is 20A for the Engine ECU and Cooling Fan electronic Mixer.

Most of the codes are on the Wiki here:
https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/wiki/Elect ... ring_Codes




G)
Wire 1355: canister electrovalve supply
Wire 1382: fuel high pressure regulator solenoid valve supply

[dfabrici]

Hi! That's a nice one to troubleshoot.
I'm noticing RL1 and RL2 are both controlled internally by the ECU, RL1 via pin E1 in the 48 way black plug, RL2 through the microprocessor in the BSM, again driven by pin M2 in the 48 way brown plug. Since RL2 feeds all loads related to the engine running (injectors, coils, lambda sensors, high pressure solenoid), I'm guessing that maybe the ECU closes it only when the engine is actually cranked, so that would explain how it can be that you don't find 12v at F5/F10 while just with ignition on, but coils and the rest work (and you actually have an issue only in the injector circuit), and would also explain why feeding 12 volts to the output of RL2 doesn't make any change. Have you tried measuring voltage on F10 while cranking? Just a thought, maybe with no sense, but it's something that came up on my mind.

Bye
Davide

[407]

So got a "working" BSM fuse box and swapped it with my old one but have exactly the same issue, eg no power on Fuse 10 and 5 / not starting so suspect my old BMS fuse box is okay.

I did consider the immobiliser and if the reading ring is loose / damaged but the general consensus is that it would not allow cranking if it was not working and there are no errors on the display - any views ?

I do have a P0336 error crankshaft sensor and replaced this last week with a new one but no joy. One post mentioned the ring that it reads being an issue but I have no idea how to get to it / clean it.

I also read a post re water corrosion to the crankshaft sensor connector that can cause a P0336 error and did notice a bit of pink dried up water coolant on it, so will pull it again and see if its shorting out (was dry so not sure why). The other comment on the post was possible damage to that harness due to where it is located.

I assume a lack of crankshaft sensor signal may also stop the ECU from firing the injectors.

Thanks for the help so far.

[GiveMeABreak]

I don't have much info on this 2004 petrol ES9A system, but certainly on a Diesel, the car will crank but not start, unless authorised by the engine ECU.

You didn't confirm if you had the immobiliser warning light coming on the dash or not when trying to start ....

As for the crankshaft sensor - again advice is to be aware of parts quality - the really cheap ones can fail or be DOA, so do punt for a decent one to rule that out. If the sensor is not working or providing bad info, then yes it can lead to non-starting.

[407]

Thanks Marc

No warnings in the display re immobiliser - just that the car is now in economy mode so not much works. Any other way to eliminate it being an issue ? eg what else will not work if the immobiliser is the problem

I picked up a multimeter with a oscilloscope so will test it when cranking to see if any signals are being sent.

If no signals, will pull and replace the crankshaft connector and see what happens.

I have the old crankshaft sensor so will also try that if the connector refresh does not work. Its a bugger to get to.

cheers

[407]

Hi

just wondering if there is a others ways to test if the immobiliser is the issue - I have no warning light that come up so assumes it not.

I've replaced the crankshaft sensor (P0336 fault - open loop) and its plug and tested that I get signals so that now seems okay.

Ive also ordered a new rear bank VVTV as I get a P0081 fault (open loop) plus changed the wiring plug just in case

I ran Diagbox again today and the main results are

a) BSI - F034 absence of communication with alarm ECU - further down (around page 20 ofthe P 22) it says the anti-theft alarm has a communications error but when I ran Planet configuration says its present - any idea when this would be (I read somewhere near the BSI)

b) ABS / ESP and Autobox both have a U1108 code Missing Engine control ECU plus U1208 Communications with engine ECU - wiring issues ?

c) Injectors (P020x errors) - All are open loop (conditions for switching to a closed loop not yet satisfied) - I assume this may be caused by the above ?

regards

[GiveMeABreak]

If the alarm goes off, then likely to be needed a replacement module as the internal battery backup is probably end of life. If not, then it may be a communications error in line with the other comms faults you seem to be having.

[407]

Small updates

I did the beep test (eg unlock car, close door, try to start car, leave key in ignition in off position, open door, should beep) but no sound / beep

Then tried the easy start fluid test (spray starter fluid in intake and try to start). It did try to start (eg ran for a few seconds ) but I could hear noises with the valves / camshaft area - so I have to wait for my new VVT valve and see what happens then

My theory is the VVT (one at front and one a rear) advance the camshafts by pumping oil into the actuator chambers when starting - Diagbox says the rear one is not working (hence the OBD code P0081) which tells the ECU not to start / power up the injectors (given I have spark and the rest of the conditions for starting)

[Abdul]

get your daigbox and Diagnose the car go To perameters on BSI and check immobilaza To See if the box is lock OR not

[407]

Thanks

Diag Immobisier says not locked (no) but does lock if I remote lock the car, so i guess the key and coil work.

I also got the beep test to work (seems you need to get in, close the door, try to start, leave key in ignition and then open the door - goes da da dah da da dah for me )

I noticed in the diag immobisier that the remote 1 was not synced so held the unlock button for 10 secs when in the ignition and on - now synced

After that it seemed to try and fire a few times but not run so confirms a fuel / injector issue - lots of fuel pressure in both injector lines when i pull the connectors off so assume pump is working

A few questions

a) would the P0335 engine speed / crankshaft sensor error (says open circuit) cause a crank but no start condition - I've put a new sensor is so assume its working but may be a wiring issue
b) I swapped the VVT's eg rear to front. front to rear and tested both with a 12 volt battery that they pumped up and down) but still have a P0081 rear VVT (open circuit) - again wiring ?
c) I get two P0335 engine speed sensor signal error come up in Diag Global test - all the data is the same
d) still get a communication error anti-theft alarm come up but no OBD code l