[2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

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BadIdea
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[2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by BadIdea »

Hi guys,

This morning I had to turn the car around and drive back home as it was kangarooing in each gear, especially the lower gears when coming out of junctions. Each time it did this it was accompanied by a strange sort of whooshing sound, the only way I can describe it is kind of like "shhhukkatukka". I couldn't catch it on video unfortunately, but it felt like it was slipping out of gear. It's the 6-speed auto version I have, with the HDi 2.0.

Any input appreciated!
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

You'll need to get it diagnosed, preferable with Diagbox / Peugeot Planet 2000, as the gearbox will likely have some fault codes. Also, please list any warning lights on the dash or messages.

When was the gearbox oil last changed?

If the engine jolts between 1200 and 2000 revs, then you may need the engine management ECU software updated. But getting it diagnosed for fault codes is a must really, then pop them up here.
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by BadIdea »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 12:49 You'll need to get it diagnosed, preferable with Diagbox / Peugeot Planet 2000, as the gearbox will likely have some fault codes. Also, please list any warning lights on the dash or messages.

When was the gearbox oil last changed?

If the engine jolts between 1200 and 2000 revs, then you may need the engine management ECU software updated. But getting it diagnosed for fault codes is a must really, then pop them up here.
Thanks for the reply. Not sure when the gearbox oil was last changed - can't see any mention of it in the service history.

Do I need to take it to a dealer? I'm in Huddersfield and can't seem to find any Peugeot specialists in the area. I would imagine if I take it to a general indie garage they're probably only going to have the basic code readers (but happy to be proved wrong).
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It really depends on where you go of course.

ALthough the manufacturer classifies these AM6 boxes as 'sealed for life' they aren't. Longevity and performance of the box really relies on a changing the gearbox oil. Be aware though that the oil can't be changed in one go as 4L of the 7 litre capacity remain in the torque converter, so it often requires 3 changes to get as near a complete oil change as possible. The gearbox oil counter needs resetting too each time using a compatible diagnostic tool and the oil must be at 60 °C before changing it.

So yes, you really need somebody with a suitable diagnostic kit ('Lexia' VCI Kit and Diagbox) and who knows how to change the oil on these boxes. There are guides here on this forum for changing the oil on an AM6 box.

Having said that, it is still important that you get it diagnosed. Regarding the 'jolting' I mentioned - if this is applicable it will need a Peugeot dealer to download and update it for you - so if you are going to book it in they would read the faults at the same time. Sometimes it is cheaper in the long run to go to the dealer for something like this unless you can get it to a Auto gearbox specialist who has experience with the Aisin Warner AM6 box.
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by 407 »

I'd change the oil in the gear box AM6 - its not that hard, esp if its dirty (eg not clear red) and smells burnt

Oil - any auto oil that is ATF 3309 specified (JWS 3309) or GM 9986195 or Toyota (Type-IV) will do
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

407 wrote: 20 Apr 2021, 11:26 Oil - any auto oil that is ATF 3309 specified (JWS 3309) or GM 9986195 or Toyota (Type-IV) will do
That's not correct regarding the oil - it is important for these AM6 gearboxes that the correct oil is used based on the Euro standards of the vehicle ....

The oil type "AW-1" in AT6 and AM6 gearboxes with Euro 5 specifications is specific and cannot be replaced with oil type "JWS 3309"

JWS 3309 is only to be used for Euro 4 Engines. The DW10CTED4 engine is Euro 5, so do not use JWS 3309 as it not designed for this specific box with this standard. There are variants of the AM6 gearbox based on the Euro standards at the time.
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by 407 »

Noted

Its probably an Australian thing to use whatever is available on hand given the tyranny of distance and price of "genuine" parts :)

That said, my 2004 with a ES9 A V6 petrol engine (so I assume Euro 4 applies) shifts / works a lot better for the last 60K kms after a few auto oil changes (now at 200K kms)
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi, yes, your ES9A is a Euro 4 technical standard, so the JWS 3309 is perfect for your vehicle. The oil specifications (engine and gearbox) are changing all the time and one thing to note is that Peugeot / Citroen's own specifications are often a lot higher than the 'industry standards' as they make a lot of the engines / or co-develop them. It's much more important with their later vehicles as they try and get more out of less, so with greater emphasis on getting to temperature more quickly and hotter running with less emissions, they require specialist oils to support the newer tech in the engines. Take the latest Petrol EB2 3 cylinder engines - get the wrong engine oil and it can knacker the timing belt (belt in oil system) rather quickly. It's the one thing I wouldn't compromise on in a vehicle. :)

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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by BadIdea »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 15:35 It really depends on where you go of course.

ALthough the manufacturer classifies these AM6 boxes as 'sealed for life' they aren't. Longevity and performance of the box really relies on a changing the gearbox oil. Be aware though that the oil can't be changed in one go as 4L of the 7 litre capacity remain in the torque converter, so it often requires 3 changes to get as near a complete oil change as possible. The gearbox oil counter needs resetting too each time using a compatible diagnostic tool and the oil must be at 60 °C before changing it.

So yes, you really need somebody with a suitable diagnostic kit ('Lexia' VCI Kit and Diagbox) and who knows how to change the oil on these boxes. There are guides here on this forum for changing the oil on an AM6 box.

Having said that, it is still important that you get it diagnosed. Regarding the 'jolting' I mentioned - if this is applicable it will need a Peugeot dealer to download and update it for you - so if you are going to book it in they would read the faults at the same time. Sometimes it is cheaper in the long run to go to the dealer for something like this unless you can get it to a Auto gearbox specialist who has experience with the Aisin Warner AM6 box.
Well, I took it into an automatic transmission specialist on Friday and of course it behaved itself completely on the way in (I hadn't driven it since gingerly bringing it back home when it first happened). I got a call in the afternoon saying that they'd driven it for 45 minutes and couldn't get it to miss a beat. Unfortunately the diagnostic tool wasn't a Lexia/Diagbox, but it came back with the following:

Code: Select all

[PERMANENT]
[1445] Additive system: Maximum additive level in the particle filter: Reached

[PERMANENT]
[1434] Additive system: Additive pump

[PERMANENT]
[0461] Additive system: Fuel sender signal: Invalid

[PERMANENT]
[1435] Additive system: No communication with additive ECU

[PERMANENT]
[2408] Additive system: Fuel filler cap signal

[INTERMITTENT]
[2137] Accelerator pedal signal: Consistency with other accelerator pedal signal

[INTERMITTENT]
[1197] Injector control: Harness, injector, ECU power stage

[PERMANENT]
[0495] Cooling function incorporated into ECU: Coherence between fan speed and setting

[PERMANENT]
[0692] High speed fan control: Variable Speed: Short circuit to earth or open circuit

[INTERMITTENT]
[0686] Power relay control: Short circuit to earth or open circuit
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

A few things going on there then....

Basically that first fault (1445) is saying your particle filter has reached end of life. The additive fluid that helps regeneration contains Cerine which cannot be burnt off, so this, along with bits of engine deposits, ash and the like will ultimately clog up the particle filter - they only have a finite life. This is estimated based on the amount of fluid added at the factory and then if any additive fluid tops up have been completed since and the additive counter reset. So the additive ECU is saying that the maximum amount of Cerine in grammes has been dumped into the filter and it's time to change it.

It is estimated though and you may continue without issue until you start getting the filter blogged messages up.

Having said all that - in the 1435 fault you are getting non-communication fault - so the additive ECU is not talking to the other systems - Where the older vehicles had a separate additive ECU as yours does according to your VIN, they are known to malfunction and stop working - especially after they have tried to be reset when the additive tank has been filled up - often necessitating a replacement unit.

But there are a few related issues here - so does need looking at by somebody Peugeot Planet 2000 / Diagbox.
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by BadIdea »

Okay, thanks. I'm thinking that buying a Diagbox kit myself is probably the best way to go as I'll no doubt get some use out of it as long as I have this car.

I've seen a kit with Diagbox V7.83 for less than £50 on eBay. Any gotchas to be aware of?
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

You really need to make 100% sure it is a full chip revision C kit - beware a lot of the cheaper ones are not and this will give you communications problems with a lot of full CAN vehicles.

Although we are not affiliated, members of the FCF can get a 15% on diagnostics equipment from a popular supplier to members:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60112
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by BadIdea »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 09:27 You really need to make 100% sure it is a full chip revision C kit - beware a lot of the cheaper ones are not and this will give you communications problems with a lot of full CAN vehicles.

Although we are not affiliated, members of the FCF can get a 15% on diagnostics equipment from a popular supplier to members:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60112
Thanks. I checked their website and unfortunately it appears that the Lexia kit is out of stock at the moment. I found this on Amazon though which claims to be a Rev C device:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lexia-CHIP-REV ... 613&sr=8-5
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by moizeau »

Probably nothing to do with it but with the codes being related to the dpf and the kangarooing, was the engine nice and hot but not going fast. Also when you got out did it smell hot? Has it ever kangarooed with a cold engine?
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 SW 6-Speed Auto Slipping Out of Gear?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

BadIdea wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 14:32
GiveMeABreak wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 09:27 You really need to make 100% sure it is a full chip revision C kit - beware a lot of the cheaper ones are not and this will give you communications problems with a lot of full CAN vehicles.

Although we are not affiliated, members of the FCF can get a 15% on diagnostics equipment from a popular supplier to members:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60112
Thanks. I checked their website and unfortunately it appears that the Lexia kit is out of stock at the moment. I found this on Amazon though which claims to be a Rev C device:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lexia-CHIP-REV ... 613&sr=8-5
That one looks kosher.
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